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Over 10k block campaign units' list; what do we do with those?

#1
Question 
Majyst Notes are in blue

If you want to skip the text wall keep scrolling until you meet the X large text and start reading. You'll get what is going on anyways. Cheers!

After some time I think I found what I will do added to working on WF. Luckily I've been able to read what was going on on the forums while I was (and still am from the remaining part of the month) on vacation and I know to have been part into the creation of over-10k designs even tough I knew they were deemed to be unlikely to be feasible for the campaign since they were classified as too big by Nick Smart himself as they caused considerable lag to medium to low spec machines. I intend to revert this by identifying these units (my own to start with) and decide with the rest of the KOTL team the path to take for them.

The way I see it if we have a 10k+ block unit there are 4 different choices we can take towards it:
1)Modify it in order to raise it's combat efficiency and bring it to standards when compared to the same faction's designs, making that if it is a 15k block unit it has to do the same or a better job at fighting than 3 5k units or 2 7.5k ones. This can be verified by
-doing a combat test and checking the efficiency score of the unit and then compare it to smaller same faction vehicles
-face it against same-block count fleets to see how it fairs and then do the same with smaller same faction units to see the difference
2) Overhaul the unit, meaning that due to it's structure the unit is not block-efficient enough and therefore needs to be rebuilt, this time under or exactly at 10k blocks to not overshoot the threshold.
3) Repurpose the unit, meaning that due to the current state of the game not being optimal with giant units roaming around said 10k plus unit has not to be present in the official campaign by default in any of the difficulties or missions being part of a series of missions. It can however be present in stand-alone ones but the players have to be warned by the high block count of it.
4)Storage the unit, meaning that at the current state of the game the unit is not fit for both official campaign and missions of any kind and therefore is stored in the archive until it is feasible for something.

Just remember these 4 options are open to throughout discussion(as well as the designs being listed below) especially the 1st and 3rd one due to the fact they are going to imply having 10k plus units in either official campaign or default missions (even if stand-alone in order to not make a player unable to get to the next missions due to the fact it can't complete a mission because of crashing by too many blocks in play caused by that specific unit).
I now ask support by all KOTLs in order to list all in-game, awaiting integration or evaluated (and promising in their opinion) 10k plus units and decide what option to take with them. In order to make things easier you should state faction, block count, suggested course of action and if you're willing to do it yourself of each unit you list, so that I can add them down below in a homogeneous and understandable way. I will start with two units of mine that are in the evaluated/evaluation forum and the last one that currently is the only 10k plus WF unit in the campaign.

How to modify and/or develop the thread further

-when you add a 10k plus unit do it as I do it. State its characteristics exactly in the order and visuals I did to keep it homogenous and understandable.

-when you leave your comment under a unit state who you are at the start of your comment and the first thing the comment has to state is one word wich is one of the four options.

-unless you are Nick or Majyst DO NOT ERASE ANYTHING OR I WILL CUT ALL YOUR FINGERS AND MAKE YOU EAT THEM ONE BY ONE.
All KOTLs should be posting throughoutly thought comment and therefore nothing should be erased. Remember that for obvious reasons the comment that will have most weight upon deciding the fate of said unit will be (in order of weight)
-Nick's
-Majyst's
-head KOTL's(of that faction)
-KOTL's(of that faction)
-KOTL's(of other factions)


GENERAL DISCUSSION ON HOW SHOULD FACTION BEHAVE WHEN FACED WITH THE NOW MANDATORY 10K THRESHOLD

DEEP WATER GUARD
ARCAGNELL0
Unless there is one barely grazing 10k in the evaluation or awaiting integration folder the deep water guard does not have any design surpassing the "new" 10k block count limit for faction units and should not do that as they are the starter faction. Nothing much to say here really.


STEEL STRIDERS
ARCAGNELL0
Before I let my river of words pour out my tiny phone and flow into this thread let me clear out this is NOT a complaint and NOT a dissatisfaction towards what has been done so far by the very few people working on SS (just 7th and Treckintosh along the whole time the faction existed with external help here and there by many individuals until kow). Now brace yourself because I got a lot of things to say regarding pretty much the faction with the most 10k block units that in a good number of cases prove themselves to be the least efficient ones out of all that currently are in the campaign.
First of, let us ponder the fact that until a month ago the faction was expected to be the 3rd strongest one and let us face it in the last 4...5 months it did a poor job at that for various reasons.
1)most SS units while lore wise could be allowed to have much better active defences only have one (none or minimal in some cases). As a result the bigger units (10k+ block ones included and in most cases prime examples) are comparable to Onyx Watch combat performances, except the fact that they lag more.
2)This is the only faction out of all that still bases off real-world vessels, airplanes and some designs while looking amazing terribly fail at everything else concerning combat efficiency. In order to bring the faction to standards it desperately NEEDS to get rid of what I rashly call "replicamania" and focus more on using all its lore at her favor to prevail. It was often said that the rate of fire limits on SS were the nail in the coffin for it and there was no other way but to build bigger and bigger vessels to counter that but I am against this notion with every single one of the molecules composing me. As far as I know a Steel Strider capital vessels apart from cannons could be equipped with the following things in order to reach medium faction standards:
-Full gauge, full accuracy, full AP and full explosive cannons on battleships
-Missile defences including LAMS, Interceptor missiles and Flares
-Laser defences
-Full low intensity (along the lines of one two or three) shield projector coverage plus a meeium-high shield intensity in front of the turrets
-Offensive missiles may those be long range, anti-air, as long as they do not have EMP or an absurd amount of thumper heads (at the moment) making them OP, even torpedoes of all lenghts and purposes
-Heavy armor, from one to whatever as long as the vessel still floats without any help but his own buoyancy and air pumps and still has the looks of a pseudo-realistic vessel.
Does a 10k plus in-game vessel have all, hell even half of the things I stated above? If so there is a problem wich has to be solved.
3)A very, very few in numbers SS KOTL team. When I decided wich faction to belong to as KOTL I was not fixed on one in particular but I ended up having to decide between WF, SS and GT. I would have loved to start helping out GT but then I considered the amount of very present and productive KOTL team on it and ended up discarding it, even tough I contribute to making GT vessels more deadly from time to time even now as it's very fun to do no matter what has to be done. The two choices left were WF and SS and my thought process kind of went along those lines. "Mh considering it will be my first role that is not casually building and helping with stuff at random I should not be choosing anything that implies having me sitting down for hours pulling my plenty deal of hair out of my head. So let's check the striders, what do they have t- holy Raptor Jesus 7 pages worth of designs to evaluate, a good half of the in game units to be updated and or rebuilt; it wouldn't be totally on my shoulders as there are plenty of KOTLs alre- OK. White Flayers here I come!"
I was simply baffled by how much work needed and still in part needs to be processed by just ONE PERSON, because you can say Treckintosh is the original SS (AFAIK) KOTL but it was 7th that In-between his exams and personal matters worked on SS since I basically created my account three thousand comments ago. Why is this? Now that I am a KOTL I perfectly understand how long and time demanding it is to work even on side stuff for the factions and one was totally left in the hands of a very busy person and another one wich literally had his computer die on him and is just now coming back? I honestly am going to switch faction I am helping with after I deal with this next WF update to SS as they need manpower BADLY.
While I will be able to solve at least one issue by myself for a good portion the first and second ones need to go, we may as well pit SS with OW in the easy faction category otherwise.


ONYX WATCH

ARCAGNELL0
The Watch as khaz once told me and rightfully underlines every time it is forgotten should be having the biggest of units block count wise. I do not know about anybody else's opinion (not totally) but out of all factions OW should be allowed to slip past this block count once in a while(if required to maintain the "size supremacy of Neter") since the designs (lore wise) only have block count as lag source; their armament, defenses and speed are the most lag friendly out of all factions.


WHITE FLAYERS
ARCAGNELL0
While I had tons of fun with designing and helping fleshing out designs for almost all factions (I'm coming OW!) my KOTL career currently starts and ends with the Flayers. A lot of work has been done and is still due to be done but we are almost entirely free of the "behemoth invasion". The faction lore never was fond of slow stuff and giant flying objects of pain (not over 10k one at least, let us banish the Gymnura cataclysm from our memories) and always prefered fast nimble and aggressive units armed to the teeth with AP cannons, missiles, drills and...teeth. WF will not go past that 10k limit not because it is forced to but because it will never have to!


LIGHTNING HOODS
ARCAGNELL0
This is the faction that I worked the least with (if we take OW out of the equation for a moment) so I'll be brief and focus on what little I know about it in order to not commit any kind of sin towards what actually is being done to the faction. The way I think about it is towards the thought that LH in a similar way to the one of the Flayers does not need to exceed that 10k threshold lore wise as by having sleek configurations of their units and focusing on a weapon type that does not require absurd amount of blocks to be competitive like lasers. The Megawatt is a perfect example of my opinion on the faction as it's one of the strongest units and does not even need 8k blocks to do so(maybe even less?!), gotta love you for this khaz!

TWIN GUARD


GRAY TALONS


SCARLET DAWN



So, ehm...what was I talking about again? Oh yes.
Now. This wall text is approximately half way thru when it is going to be finished. I will sum the above stuff up here now to make it easier for you to understand why and what needs to be done.
The campaign is a lagfest from low to mediocre PCs and Laptops. Nick and lead Lore Keepers know that but us underlings still gave birth to 10k or more blocks units even tough the limit was set to 10.000 blocks.
Now the limit is soon to become mandatory or as youngsters say much more strict meaning that soon™ Majyst is going to borrow Grim Reaper's Scythe and is going to do massacre.
That is unless we start working on it now and work on these over 10k units.
Still not failing their respective faction lore, in order to not be slaughtered these designs either need to be as or more combat efficient as smaller same faction units (double the size double and a half the strength or whatever ratio it is but you got it anyway).
If that fails then the units have to be rebuilt not above 10k blocks.
If even that results to be impossible for various reason then the design is archived wich means disposed of.
Synthesis over.


10k PLUS UNIT LIST


[SS] [EVALUATED] Colossus (11.700 blocks) :


ARCAGNELL0
Overhaul, since I can't remove anything without worsening it's wonderful efficiency score (around 3) and because I already have feasible ideas to create a 10k block version myself with same or better fighting capabilities and still good looks.

-[SS] [IN-GAME] Bullshark (11.144 blocks)
7thfleet
Overhaul, the new diagonal slopes should reduce the block count enough.

-[SS] [IN-GAME] Excalibur (around 12.000 blocks?)
7thfleet
Overhaul, with enough sloping I should be able to bring it under 10K.

-[SS] [IN-GAME] Thyr (should be 16.500 blocks but I could be wrong)
7thfleet
Storage.This thing is in a really poor state, the superstructure isn't beamed, the turret bases are unarmored, the turret bases are surrounded by ammo, it has 2 AIs, it nearly capsizes when turning, the deck is asymmetrical, the superstructure is metal but the hull is alloy, there is a crapload of wood in it, and the list goes on. Seriously considering removing this vessel from the game entirely.

- [SD] [EVALUATION] Crescent (14.700 blocks):

ARCAGNELL0
Overhaul. Due to the sheer mass, high speeds and enormous missile barrage the unit is totally not feasible for both campaign or missions as it is. I plan on creating a 10k version of it myself with around half offensive missile arsenal and unchanged defenses and repair capabilities.

[SD] [IN-GAME] Darkstar (around 18k blocks, most of it is laser parts)


[SD] [IN-GAME] Asteroid (around 11.000 blocks if I remember correctly)


[SD] [EVALUATION] Spear of Posiden (10.516 blocks)


[SD] [IN-GAME] Dominion (Around 17k blocks, most of it is laser)


[SD] [IN-GAME] Nova (I think a bit more than 10.000 blocks)

- [WF] [IN-GAME] Retaliator (around 13.000 blocks):

ARCAGNELL0
Modify. The unit has so many good points on it including combat efficiency that it IMO could still be present in the campaign almost as it currently is. While it just got recently modified the unit by repurposing its side missiles and missile turrets with 3 independent AMMS systems to protect it from ballistic threats I can make it combat efficient even further by strengthening it's turret casings further by simply swapping alloy for metal until it's possible, work on the turret bases and add shield projectors, wich should be present at 5 intensity on all units able to house them

- [OW] [IN-GAME] Alcazar (11.000 blocks)
ABYAY
Can probably get this one down close to 10k, but doubtful to hit less. There's a good bit of opportunity for beam slope improvements. Other areas can be somewhat optimized.

- [OW] [IN-GAME] Bulwark (15.000 blocks)
ABYAY
no way this is getting down that low. The craft itself is rather slow, so in terms of lag due to high block movement, this design doesn't cause much issue. It can be somewhat optimized with beam slopes

- [OW] [?] Kingstead (19.000 blocks)
ABYAY
I'm no miracle worker, sadly. Lowering block count that low is impossible. Its scrap smelters were turned off in a recent update, however, which helps greatly when involving particles.

- [OW] [IN-GAME] Constitution (14.200 blocks)
ABYAY
surprisingly, beam slopes don't even help here due to the styling. However, the odds of actually encountering this craft are very low as is; not only would you have to rush OW, but you'd have to bulldoze your way through several fights to see its very minuscule spawn chance come into play.

-[OW] [IN-GAME] Erye (10.107 blocks)
ABYAY
should be easy enough to drop underneath 10k since it has opportunities to be beam sloped.

- [GT] [EVALUATION] Iron juggernaut (~11K blocks)
Dreadthrone note: very likely salvageable, will work on it tomorrow.

- [GT] [EVALUATION] Aardwolf (~12K blocks)
Dreadthrone note: likely not salvageable until sloped beams for 2 meter slopes are out.

- [GT] [INTEGRATION] Werebat (15,000 blocks)
Dreadthrone note: Majyst has decided that the new 15K version is good enough and has collected it.

- [GT] [EVALUATION] Scylla (14,000 blocks)
Dreadthrone note: Was totally devoid of beam slopes, managed to get it down to 12.500.

- [GT] [In Game] Hobgoblin (10,432 blocks)
-In game version hasn't had slope beam optimization yet, could likely save many blocks. Dreadthrone submitted a 10k version

[TG] Abyss (13,253 blocks). Can reduce some by adding 1x4 angles, changing lead bottom to Metal Beams and optimizing laser system.
I do not apply murder to the vehicle, the murder has the vehicle built around it! -ARCAGNELL0

"If there is no struggle, there is no progress" -Frederick Douglass

(2017-01-23, 04:32 PM)Shade Wrote: I think you can basically stack infinite shields in an arc
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Over 10k block campaign units' list; what do we do with those? - by ARCAGNELL0 - 2015-08-23, 03:27 PM

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