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Ammo and fuel changes

#1
Important notes
- Campaign overhaul is in progress, resource gains will be adjusted accordingly
- Changes aren't out yet, expect them in a few days tops on devtest
- As usual, all values are subject to change as the details are worked out
- APS is still in progress. These changes are just easy and quick to do, leave more time to adapt old designs



Ammo changes
  • Ammo crate capacity up from 100 to 1000/volume
  • Ammo crate passive regen removed
  • APS and missile ammo costs reduced to ~40% (ballpark)

Ammo change results
  • Crate capacity going up means everything works the same or better for 15 minutes (100 + 900 regen with old crates)
  • APS/missiles now do not have to take free ammo into account, they cost ~30-40% of their purchase cost to run for 15 minutes
  • APS/missile craft that relied on passive regen now have enough ammo capacity for ~38 minutes
  • Small/disposable things get more compact: they can get away with way less crates, possibly 1 if they have allies in battle
  • Ammo costs can't be completely ignored by adding more volume
Adding refinery-like factories is planned(similar range, up to ~15 ammo/materials for efficient ones).
For now processors are the way to generate ammo.



Refinery change
  • Refinery efficiency down, from 150+ fuel for 1 material to 10-15, depending on setup

Refinery change reasons
  • Fuel was virtually free in the campaign, that was throwing off everything using it(a bit evened out by ammo also being free Smile )
  • Old values made finding a place for steam impossible. If it's tuned for designer values with 10 fuel/mat it's completely useless in campaign, and vice versa



Resource containers
  • Ammo crate cost up from 10 to 110 materials/volume
  • Fuel tank cost up from 100 to 110 materials/volume (210 if capacity is doubled with turbo changes)
  • Empty variants added for both ammo and fuel tanks, cost is 10/volume
  • Repairing all variants costs 10 materials/volume, doesn't add fuel/materials
  • Destroying ammo/fuel containers also removes a proportional amount of resources (10 ammo crates, 4000/10000 ammo: if 1 blows up you'll be at 3600)



Experimental, in no way guaranteed:
Turbo-related changes
  • Turbo efficiency down to ~50% (350 power/fuel down to ~175, 1200 to ~600)
  • Fuel tank capacities and price doubled, so existing designs are the same or better as before
  • Heat generated is the function of fuel usage, it is reduced so existing turbos keep working and injector/supercharger get a buff

Reasons for the turbo change
  • Since the exhaust overhaul 300+ power/fuel turbos are the best general engines by far, see https://forum.fromthedepthsgame.com/show...?tid=16212 for an overview
  • Injectors are mostly useless, hands up anyone who used turbochargers or radiators in the past ~2 years
  • Since 300-350 PPF turbos have a pretty high minimum volume small things can't effectively use them. They are penalized even further than the usual volume-surface scaling, with the changes small engines aren't so bad
  • Power is extremely cheap even with 10 fuel/materials, it is practically just a volume tax:
    - Standard jets give ~10x the thrust as a custom jet with same fuel use. With halved turbos a huge jet will still only use ~90 materials in 15 minutes, assuming 10 fuel/materials
    - Running medium AP lasers needs power worth ~10% their cost in 15 minutes. Lasers are highly specialized so them being cheaper than APS/missiles isn't a problem, but 20% would still be more reasonable
    - See lasers for railgun charge and PACs
Reply



Messages In This Thread
Ammo and fuel changes - by draba - 2019-10-04, 11:03 AM
RE: Ammo and fuel changes - by Pyrotech51 - 2019-10-04, 11:32 AM
RE: Ammo and fuel changes - by temeter - 2019-10-04, 12:26 PM
RE: Ammo and fuel changes - by draba - 2019-10-04, 12:59 PM
RE: Ammo and fuel changes - by killshoot - 2019-10-04, 12:30 PM
RE: Ammo and fuel changes - by Napoleon201067 - 2019-10-04, 01:19 PM
RE: Ammo and fuel changes - by temeter - 2019-10-04, 01:26 PM
RE: Ammo and fuel changes - by Pyrotech51 - 2019-10-04, 01:53 PM
RE: Ammo and fuel changes - by Skyer - 2019-10-04, 01:47 PM
RE: Ammo and fuel changes - by Eagle - 2019-10-04, 03:25 PM
RE: Ammo and fuel changes - by draba - 2019-10-04, 03:58 PM
RE: Ammo and fuel changes - by temeter - 2019-10-04, 06:11 PM
RE: Ammo and fuel changes - by Blothorn - 2019-10-04, 07:36 PM
RE: Ammo and fuel changes - by temeter - 2019-10-04, 07:40 PM
RE: Ammo and fuel changes - by IronFudge - 2019-10-04, 03:52 PM
RE: Ammo and fuel changes - by draba - 2019-10-04, 04:08 PM
RE: Ammo and fuel changes - by temeter - 2019-10-04, 10:18 PM
RE: Ammo and fuel changes - by BorderWise - 2019-10-04, 06:52 PM
RE: Ammo and fuel changes - by SynthTwo - 2019-10-04, 08:19 PM
RE: Ammo and fuel changes - by Pyrotech51 - 2019-10-04, 08:48 PM
RE: Ammo and fuel changes - by draba - 2019-10-04, 09:12 PM
RE: Ammo and fuel changes - by Garnetfoxbat - 2019-10-04, 09:23 PM
RE: Ammo and fuel changes - by Maty83Cz - 2019-10-04, 10:29 PM
RE: Ammo and fuel changes - by Maty83Cz - 2019-10-04, 10:49 PM
RE: Ammo and fuel changes - by mrvecz - 2019-10-04, 11:24 PM
RE: Ammo and fuel changes - by joey101937 - 2019-10-05, 12:54 AM
RE: Ammo and fuel changes - by mastercluff - 2019-10-05, 05:18 AM
RE: Ammo and fuel changes - by snoman314 - 2019-10-05, 05:31 AM
RE: Ammo and fuel changes - by KuroTerrorSquid - 2019-10-05, 05:52 AM
RE: Ammo and fuel changes - by Maty83Cz - 2019-10-05, 07:03 AM
RE: Ammo and fuel changes - by Xalinsky - 2019-10-05, 08:17 AM
RE: Ammo and fuel changes - by draba - 2019-10-05, 09:31 AM
RE: Ammo and fuel changes - by Xalinsky - 2019-10-05, 10:47 AM
RE: Ammo and fuel changes - by Pwnicus - 2019-10-05, 10:09 AM
RE: Ammo and fuel changes - by mastercluff - 2019-10-05, 12:53 PM
RE: Ammo and fuel changes - by Normal69 - 2019-10-05, 01:23 PM
RE: Ammo and fuel changes - by temeter - 2019-10-05, 03:49 PM
RE: Ammo and fuel changes - by Maty83Cz - 2019-10-05, 03:54 PM
RE: Ammo and fuel changes - by temeter - 2019-10-05, 03:59 PM
RE: Ammo and fuel changes - by Maty83Cz - 2019-10-05, 05:36 PM
RE: Ammo and fuel changes - by Pyrotech51 - 2019-10-05, 06:10 PM
RE: Ammo and fuel changes - by ABYAY - 2019-10-05, 01:39 PM
RE: Ammo and fuel changes - by Normal69 - 2019-10-06, 08:53 AM
RE: Ammo and fuel changes - by Maty83Cz - 2019-10-05, 03:16 PM
RE: Ammo and fuel changes - by Pyrotech51 - 2019-10-05, 04:15 PM
RE: Ammo and fuel changes - by ThunderPanzer - 2019-10-05, 05:18 PM
RE: Ammo and fuel changes - by Maty83Cz - 2019-10-05, 05:45 PM
RE: Ammo and fuel changes - by draba - 2019-10-05, 06:17 PM
RE: Ammo and fuel changes - by Chaos - 2019-10-05, 09:15 PM
RE: Ammo and fuel changes - by Albino - 2019-10-05, 09:58 PM
RE: Ammo and fuel changes - by Maty83Cz - 2019-10-05, 10:05 PM
RE: Ammo and fuel changes - by Pyrotech51 - 2019-10-05, 10:33 PM
RE: Ammo and fuel changes - by draba - 2019-10-06, 12:52 AM
RE: Ammo and fuel changes - by Atotalnoobtodagaye - 2019-10-06, 03:24 AM
RE: Ammo and fuel changes - by Atotalnoobtodagaye - 2019-10-06, 05:05 AM
RE: Ammo and fuel changes - by Maty83Cz - 2019-10-06, 07:47 AM
RE: Ammo and fuel changes - by Geodarian - 2019-10-06, 10:01 AM
RE: Ammo and fuel changes - by draba - 2019-10-06, 10:48 AM
RE: Ammo and fuel changes - by obnosis - 2019-10-06, 10:16 AM
RE: Ammo and fuel changes - by hairyduck - 2019-10-07, 02:11 AM
RE: Ammo and fuel changes - by Pyrotech51 - 2019-10-07, 01:24 PM
RE: Ammo and fuel changes - by Xalinsky - 2019-10-07, 11:49 AM
RE: Ammo and fuel changes - by draba - 2019-10-07, 01:34 PM
RE: Ammo and fuel changes - by LoSboccacc - 2019-10-08, 09:41 AM
RE: Ammo and fuel changes - by Mr.YaR - 2019-10-07, 01:59 PM
RE: Ammo and fuel changes - by Zourin - 2019-10-08, 04:06 PM
RE: Ammo and fuel changes - by draba - 2019-10-08, 04:43 PM
RE: Ammo and fuel changes - by LoSboccacc - 2019-10-08, 05:24 PM
RE: Ammo and fuel changes - by Eagle - 2019-10-08, 07:55 PM
RE: Ammo and fuel changes - by draba - 2019-10-09, 07:59 AM
RE: Ammo and fuel changes - by LoSboccacc - 2019-10-09, 02:27 PM
RE: Ammo and fuel changes - by temeter - 2019-10-09, 02:38 PM
RE: Ammo and fuel changes - by IronFudge - 2019-10-09, 06:52 PM
RE: Ammo and fuel changes - by snoman314 - 2019-10-12, 10:46 PM

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