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Frag Module

#1
Is it just me, or is the Frag module more powerful than everything else, by a factor of 5.

I normally use 120-100mm shells in 400-800rpm guns. The frag module seems to be the only module that can plow through metal armour. Heat shells don't do any damage to armoured targets since the January update and solid shells just do so little damage.

Am I missing good shell designs?
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#2
https://youtu.be/1wjbhrpDwnw?list=PLinym...jz-HBi8Ade
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#3
(2018-12-11, 08:55 PM)toekietoekie Wrote: https://youtu.be/1wjbhrpDwnw?list=PLinym...jz-HBi8Ade

Exactly my point. Those shells are so underwhelming! 

Also, the HE-armour buff happened early this year in January. That video is out of date.
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#4
the frag module is great indeed but it lacks the punch to destroy armour. some uses of solid are for punching a clean hole in the enemy to take out ai or ammo stores. what doe you mean with "heat shells dont do damage anymore to armoured targets"? if they have spaced armour you could use a secondary charge to overcome this and pepper their insides with fragments. you could also use a 500mm shell with great ap to punch trouch armour and have it explode after, lets say, 8 meters. this way, you pierce the armour and have he, flak or frag inside the ship. in my opinion thats better than just trowing frags at it. against light armour frag is indeed great.
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#5
It doesn't sound like you're talking about specific targets, so it's a little hard to comment.

Like, for instance, frag does well against wood and thin metal armor. Frag spam can even be effective against heavily shielded targets just by virtue of some particles not interacting with armor at all. But this not intentional and likely to be fixed soon (if not already fixed - I haven't tested in awhile tbh). There's some niche applications of frag in lieu of flak but otherwise it's only meant to be effective against soft targets.

But it isn't more powerful than AP/Sabot, HESH or HEAT against well armored and shielded targets (ignoring the frag spam bug). HEAT performs pretty poorly against all-wooden craft, if that's your litmus test. I also wonder if you're actually playing with the sliders on your HEAT and HE modules because it can comparable to frag against wood if you turn everything down (essentially turning it into an HE shell with particle spam). The more armor pen you give HEAT, the less collateral damage you're going to get.

I'd also experiment with different shell lengths before trying to come up with theories of what works and what doesn't - HESH and HEAT can work great as stumpy shells, which also gives you the opportunity to save space on autoloaders and potentially get much better ROF for the same shell caliber, while armor penetrating shells live and die based on velocity and so need to be longer, which imparts a lot of handicaps on your design and ultimately your gun's performance.
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#6
PualWall,

So basically, frags do so much damage because they are bugged? Using frags in a 100mm shell, 1200 rpm gun is cheating?

That would make sense.
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#7
The engine can't even handle 40 particles per round x 20 rounds per second x 1 second particle duration. At this point the engine literally starts despawning particles so that missiles and other APS just disappear. It also fails to track particles as they contact surfaces so that some fragments are going to harmlessly pass through shielding, which is a bug, not a feature. 1200 rpm frag spam is strong because you're exploiting the limitations of the physics engine, not because it's doing something intended.

On a related note, 1200 rpm/100mm guns are silly and barbaric.
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#8
I've tried both HEAT and HESH shells but they do 0 damage to metal armour. Perhaps I'm not using the sliders correctly?

I've also updated my initial post to be more clear.
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#9
(2018-12-12, 12:56 AM)PualWall Wrote: The engine can't even handle 40 particles per round x 20 rounds per second x 1 second particle duration.  At this point the engine literally starts despawning particles so that missiles and other APS just disappear.  It also fails to track particles as they contact surfaces so that some fragments are going to harmlessly pass through shielding, which is a bug, not a feature.  1200 rpm frag spam is strong because you're exploiting the limitations of the physics engine, not because it's doing something intended.  

On a related note, 1200 rpm/100mm guns are silly and barbaric.

They might be silly and barbaric, but they look so cool!

And quite honestly, I know the engine can't handle it and part of the reason I started this thread to create awareness for that issue. It can be fixed pretty easily, but that's not for me to do. 

A second reason I created this thread is because I really want to know an alternative design. I'm looking for a 100-120mm shell that can take out metal armour as well as the frag module can. I doubt there is a design that can, but never hurts to ask and look around.
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#10
(2018-12-12, 12:57 AM)Joeajon Wrote: I've tried both HEAT and HESH shells but they do 0 damage to metal armour. Perhaps I'm not using the sliders correctly?

I've also updated my initial post to be more clear.

100-120mm is pretty small for HESH and HEAT against metal.
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