Not a member yet? Why not Sign up today
Create an account  

  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
 
Complex Controller Airplane issue

#1
Hey, so yesterday I made a light alloy biplane design. It uses a spin block and heliblades as a propeller, and as the vehicle controller doesn't seem to function well with spin-block heliblades so I moved all the controls onto a complex controller. Pitch, roll, everything worked properly except for yaw but I'm not sure if that's because I didn't use a tutorial or it's just something you can't do. https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/f...1512165365
In the thumbnail, you can clearly see that the biplane can fly and do so while staying relatively stable.

However, a patch just dropped today and I have noticed that my biplane is broken. Prior to the patch, it would constantly pull up due to the insane lift of the wings, but this was managable as the force of the pitch was more than enough to counteract this. It was not a great design, but it was still functional. After the patch, however, I have noticed that the controls have completely stopped responding. Well, the propeller itself still reacts to T for forward thrust and G for backwards thrust, but U and J for pitch no longer respond to input and H and K for roll don't either. I did some testing with other craft, such as a small submarine I made a while ago, and it works flawlessly using some of the same controls. For the sub, it's U for forward thrust and J for backwards thrust, as well ask H and K to turn. It works flawlessly. When my biplane takes off, due to the inability to control pitch and the lift of the wings, it literally just flips in a perfect circle and smashes into the ground, and I'm not sure what the problem is. 

I'm posting here and not in bug reports as I'm not sure if there's something in the patch notes I missed that would break this or my design has some sort of major flaw that wasn't noticeable due to a previous bug or something that let it work when it shouldn't have, if things were working as intended, and maybe I can find out how to set yaw properly for a complex controller.
"In a man-to-man fight, the winner is he who has one more round in his magazine." ~ Erwin Rommel
Reply

#2
(2018-09-14, 05:36 PM)VynalDerp Wrote: Hey, so yesterday I made a light alloy biplane design. It uses a spin block and heliblades as a propeller, and as the vehicle controller doesn't seem to function well with spin-block heliblades so I moved all the controls onto a complex controller. Pitch, roll, everything worked properly except for yaw but I'm not sure if that's because I didn't use a tutorial or it's just something you can't do. https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/f...1512165365
In the thumbnail, you can clearly see that the biplane can fly and do so while staying relatively stable.

However, a patch just dropped today and I have noticed that my biplane is broken. Prior to the patch, it would constantly pull up due to the insane lift of the wings, but this was managable as the force of the pitch was more than enough to counteract this. It was not a great design, but it was still functional. After the patch, however, I have noticed that the controls have completely stopped responding. Well, the propeller itself still reacts to T for forward thrust and G for backwards thrust, but U and J for pitch no longer respond to input and H and K for roll don't either. I did some testing with other craft, such as a small submarine I made a while ago, and it works flawlessly using some of the same controls. For the sub, it's U for forward thrust and J for backwards thrust, as well ask H and K to turn. It works flawlessly. When my biplane takes off, due to the inability to control pitch and the lift of the wings, it literally just flips in a perfect circle and smashes into the ground, and I'm not sure what the problem is. 

I'm posting here and not in bug reports as I'm not sure if there's something in the patch notes I missed that would break this or my design has some sort of major flaw that wasn't noticeable due to a previous bug or something that let it work when it shouldn't have, if things were working as intended, and maybe I can find out how to set yaw properly for a complex controller.

Multiple ACB changes have happened recently, I would go back into the ACBs that govern the non-responsive controls and ensure that the additional options haven't broken them.  In some of my designs the new options didn't transfer over 100% in some cases and broke what were fairly simple commands.
-Do not bring forth an argument as fact that can be disproven with a 10 minute Google search.
Reply

#3
(2018-09-15, 07:54 AM)Lincrono Wrote:
(2018-09-14, 05:36 PM)VynalDerp Wrote: Hey, so yesterday I made a light alloy biplane design. It uses a spin block and heliblades as a propeller, and as the vehicle controller doesn't seem to function well with spin-block heliblades so I moved all the controls onto a complex controller. Pitch, roll, everything worked properly except for yaw but I'm not sure if that's because I didn't use a tutorial or it's just something you can't do. https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/f...1512165365
In the thumbnail, you can clearly see that the biplane can fly and do so while staying relatively stable.

However, a patch just dropped today and I have noticed that my biplane is broken. Prior to the patch, it would constantly pull up due to the insane lift of the wings, but this was managable as the force of the pitch was more than enough to counteract this. It was not a great design, but it was still functional. After the patch, however, I have noticed that the controls have completely stopped responding. Well, the propeller itself still reacts to T for forward thrust and G for backwards thrust, but U and J for pitch no longer respond to input and H and K for roll don't either. I did some testing with other craft, such as a small submarine I made a while ago, and it works flawlessly using some of the same controls. For the sub, it's U for forward thrust and J for backwards thrust, as well ask H and K to turn. It works flawlessly. When my biplane takes off, due to the inability to control pitch and the lift of the wings, it literally just flips in a perfect circle and smashes into the ground, and I'm not sure what the problem is. 

I'm posting here and not in bug reports as I'm not sure if there's something in the patch notes I missed that would break this or my design has some sort of major flaw that wasn't noticeable due to a previous bug or something that let it work when it shouldn't have, if things were working as intended, and maybe I can find out how to set yaw properly for a complex controller.

Multiple ACB changes have happened recently, I would go back into the ACBs that govern the non-responsive controls and ensure that the additional options haven't broken them.  In some of my designs the new options didn't transfer over 100% in some cases and broke what were fairly simple commands.
I do not use an automated control block in my design. It does not have an AI and can only be piloted by the player. As I said, I only made it a couple days ago and haven't really finished setting up all of the AI systems or any sort of automation. I wanted to get the thing manually flyable first, but have run into the problems listed above.
"In a man-to-man fight, the winner is he who has one more round in his magazine." ~ Erwin Rommel
Reply

#4
(2018-09-15, 02:47 PM)VynalDerp Wrote:
(2018-09-15, 07:54 AM)Lincrono Wrote:
(2018-09-14, 05:36 PM)VynalDerp Wrote: Hey, so yesterday I made a light alloy biplane design. It uses a spin block and heliblades as a propeller, and as the vehicle controller doesn't seem to function well with spin-block heliblades so I moved all the controls onto a complex controller. Pitch, roll, everything worked properly except for yaw but I'm not sure if that's because I didn't use a tutorial or it's just something you can't do. https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/f...1512165365
In the thumbnail, you can clearly see that the biplane can fly and do so while staying relatively stable.

However, a patch just dropped today and I have noticed that my biplane is broken. Prior to the patch, it would constantly pull up due to the insane lift of the wings, but this was managable as the force of the pitch was more than enough to counteract this. It was not a great design, but it was still functional. After the patch, however, I have noticed that the controls have completely stopped responding. Well, the propeller itself still reacts to T for forward thrust and G for backwards thrust, but U and J for pitch no longer respond to input and H and K for roll don't either. I did some testing with other craft, such as a small submarine I made a while ago, and it works flawlessly using some of the same controls. For the sub, it's U for forward thrust and J for backwards thrust, as well ask H and K to turn. It works flawlessly. When my biplane takes off, due to the inability to control pitch and the lift of the wings, it literally just flips in a perfect circle and smashes into the ground, and I'm not sure what the problem is. 

I'm posting here and not in bug reports as I'm not sure if there's something in the patch notes I missed that would break this or my design has some sort of major flaw that wasn't noticeable due to a previous bug or something that let it work when it shouldn't have, if things were working as intended, and maybe I can find out how to set yaw properly for a complex controller.

Multiple ACB changes have happened recently, I would go back into the ACBs that govern the non-responsive controls and ensure that the additional options haven't broken them.  In some of my designs the new options didn't transfer over 100% in some cases and broke what were fairly simple commands.
I do not use an automated control block in my design. It does not have an AI and can only be piloted by the player. As I said, I only made it a couple days ago and haven't really finished setting up all of the AI systems or any sort of automation. I wanted to get the thing manually flyable first, but have run into the problems listed above.
did the recent UI changes reset your controller mapping?  I haven't been able to get the blueprint download off steam for whatever reason,  if you post it here with some guidance on what keys were supposed to control which blocks and what those commands were supposed to do i may be able to give you some more specific help.
-Do not bring forth an argument as fact that can be disproven with a 10 minute Google search.
Reply

#5
(2018-09-15, 11:50 PM)Lincrono Wrote:
(2018-09-15, 02:47 PM)VynalDerp Wrote:
(2018-09-15, 07:54 AM)Lincrono Wrote:
(2018-09-14, 05:36 PM)VynalDerp Wrote: Hey, so yesterday I made a light alloy biplane design. It uses a spin block and heliblades as a propeller, and as the vehicle controller doesn't seem to function well with spin-block heliblades so I moved all the controls onto a complex controller. Pitch, roll, everything worked properly except for yaw but I'm not sure if that's because I didn't use a tutorial or it's just something you can't do. https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/f...1512165365
In the thumbnail, you can clearly see that the biplane can fly and do so while staying relatively stable.

However, a patch just dropped today and I have noticed that my biplane is broken. Prior to the patch, it would constantly pull up due to the insane lift of the wings, but this was managable as the force of the pitch was more than enough to counteract this. It was not a great design, but it was still functional. After the patch, however, I have noticed that the controls have completely stopped responding. Well, the propeller itself still reacts to T for forward thrust and G for backwards thrust, but U and J for pitch no longer respond to input and H and K for roll don't either. I did some testing with other craft, such as a small submarine I made a while ago, and it works flawlessly using some of the same controls. For the sub, it's U for forward thrust and J for backwards thrust, as well ask H and K to turn. It works flawlessly. When my biplane takes off, due to the inability to control pitch and the lift of the wings, it literally just flips in a perfect circle and smashes into the ground, and I'm not sure what the problem is. 

I'm posting here and not in bug reports as I'm not sure if there's something in the patch notes I missed that would break this or my design has some sort of major flaw that wasn't noticeable due to a previous bug or something that let it work when it shouldn't have, if things were working as intended, and maybe I can find out how to set yaw properly for a complex controller.

Multiple ACB changes have happened recently, I would go back into the ACBs that govern the non-responsive controls and ensure that the additional options haven't broken them.  In some of my designs the new options didn't transfer over 100% in some cases and broke what were fairly simple commands.
I do not use an automated control block in my design. It does not have an AI and can only be piloted by the player. As I said, I only made it a couple days ago and haven't really finished setting up all of the AI systems or any sort of automation. I wanted to get the thing manually flyable first, but have run into the problems listed above.
did the recent UI changes reset your controller mapping?  I haven't been able to get the blueprint download off steam for whatever reason,  if you post it here with some guidance on what keys were supposed to control which blocks and what those commands were supposed to do i may be able to give you some more specific help.
I've attached the bluprint to this reply. According to the game's UI the controls are set up properly. I tried clearing them and re-doing them but the controls still wouldn't respond.
I put the controls for the aircraft in the original post, but I will retype them here for you.
T = Forward thrust (continuous mode) - works
G = Reverse thrust (also continuous mode) - works
H = Roll left (ailerons) - does not work
K = Roll right (ailerons) - does not work
U = Pitch down (tailplanes) - does not work
J = Pitch up (tailplanes) - does not work
There is currently no yaw function for the aircraft as I have no idea how to properly set one up using tailplanes.


Attached Files
.blueprint   Biplane Metal.blueprint (Size: 41.52 KB / Downloads: 2)
"In a man-to-man fight, the winner is he who has one more round in his magazine." ~ Erwin Rommel
Reply

#6
After I loaded it in. I found some problem immediately.

1. too much lift force at front because there are too many wing block. And don't have enough tailplane to counter this force.

2. when a spin block spin. it will make reaction force cause whole plane to roll.

All control function. it just doesn't have enough force to do it right. Smile

I refitted it and attached the BP. Just keep in mind, wing block have ridiculous amount of lift.


Attached Files
.blueprint   Alloy plane.blueprint (Size: 38.72 KB / Downloads: 1)
Reply

#7
(2018-09-16, 02:20 PM)Xalinsky Wrote: After I loaded it in. I found some problem immediately.

1. too much lift force at front because there are too many wing block. And don't have enough tailplane to counter this force.

2. when a spin block spin. it will make reaction force cause whole plane to roll.

All control function. it just doesn't have enough force to do it right. Smile

I refitted it and attached the BP. Just keep in mind, wing block have ridiculous amount of lift.
Well alright. I'll take a look at it but it, in the original configuration, would fly perfectly fine in spite of the rediculous lift prior to the patch. I tried reducing the wing length to a single block each a while ago and I still had the same problem of stiff controls, but I'll be sure to take a look at your new design later today.\

EDIT: I took a look at your version. It flies much better and now I'm curious as to why a a similar amount of wings I had on my craft in an earlier version still suffered lift problems, but tbh that was last patch and as is established what worked last patch isn't necessarily gonna work for this one. Either way, thanks for the help and I'll be sure to change around my biplane design a bit so that most of the wing structure is just blocks rather than pure wing. I genuinely enjoyed the look of it and I'll try and see if I can keep it in some way with less/more wings than in your design.
"In a man-to-man fight, the winner is he who has one more round in his magazine." ~ Erwin Rommel
Reply

#8
Lift issues might have risen if your wings were upside down...
Reply

#9
I've also reviewed the design and the issue is indeed that the lift was simply too high, using the force vector view the control surfaces were responding.  The only patch note I can find indicates that upside-down wings now provide lift, i can't tell if this affected the original design, but I would suggest using the new 'mimic' block to mimic wing shapes while using less wings in the actual design: this should give you the same look but with more reasonable lift.
-Do not bring forth an argument as fact that can be disproven with a 10 minute Google search.
Reply



Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread:
1 Guest(s)