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Sea Encounters: Ironclads [Discussion]

#21
(2018-08-07, 06:37 PM)Captain_Fox Wrote:
(2018-08-07, 08:51 AM)NutterChap Wrote: I can easily provide any% drive propeller prefabs, yeah. For the record, I spileld the beans in an FTD fighting ships thread once, which Tomson picked up. His thread has all the relevant information, basically, to start making those power-props yourself:

https://forum.fromthedepthsgame.com/show...?tid=27365

Oh sweet! Gonna be putting a hard limit on the speed though. 15 m/s is 29 knots, no ship of this era, sailing or otherwise, is capable of such speeds. Not until WWII times. So 10 m/s (19 knots) is the maximum speed. "Improved Props" are allowed to get your ship to that point. A little over 10m/s is allowed, but once you're at 11 m/s, no. Even 10.8 might be too much. Does that sound fair?

Why then bother with props? Reaching 10 m/s with two normal huge props on such small ship is easy. And probably any "meta" design will go exactly 10.9 m/s X)
Makes things.
The fastest thing in the universe is sluggish... Years, decades, centuries from star to star.
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#22
(2018-08-07, 06:45 PM)DraWay Wrote:
(2018-08-07, 06:37 PM)Captain_Fox Wrote:
(2018-08-07, 08:51 AM)NutterChap Wrote: I can easily provide any% drive propeller prefabs, yeah. For the record, I spileld the beans in an FTD fighting ships thread once, which Tomson picked up. His thread has all the relevant information, basically, to start making those power-props yourself:

https://forum.fromthedepthsgame.com/show...?tid=27365

Oh sweet! Gonna be putting a hard limit on the speed though. 15 m/s is 29 knots, no ship of this era, sailing or otherwise, is capable of such speeds. Not until WWII times. So 10 m/s (19 knots) is the maximum speed. "Improved Props" are allowed to get your ship to that point. A little over 10m/s is allowed, but once you're at 11 m/s, no. Even 10.8 might be too much. Does that sound fair?

Why then bother with props? Reaching 10 m/s with two normal huge props on such small ship is easy. And probably any "meta" design will go exactly 10.9 m/s X)

Some of the ships are decently big. And I said a _little_ over 10m/s, that means randomly reaching 10.3 or 10.4 based on the waves and junk. Should it just be two normal props and what speed you get is what speed you get?
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#23
Two props with no hard limit seems fair, and much simpler. Means that you actually get rewarded for streamlined hull design.
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#24
Well, it's fair.
What about paddles?

For ammo, maybe allow 2-3-5 separated ammo locations?
With no limits it's possible to spread single boxes all over the place.
Though with lots of guns expected it may be more effective to target random, then ammo decoys won't be a problem, hmm.
Makes things.
The fastest thing in the universe is sluggish... Years, decades, centuries from star to star.
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#25
(2018-08-08, 02:56 AM)DraWay Wrote: Well, it's fair.
What about paddles?

For ammo, maybe allow 2-3-5 separated ammo locations?
With no limits it's possible to spread single boxes all over the place.
Though with lots of guns expected it may be more effective to target random, then ammo decoys won't be a problem, hmm.

Paddles are known to be slow... I think the most they reached was like, 8 knots. So...4-5 m/s max for them sound good? In return for them possibly not having engines or needing smaller ones?

2-3-5 ammo locations works, maybe based on the number of guns? Or should it be 2-4-6 to represent powder and shell storage rooms? So they have to be kept close together with a single airgap and doors between them?

I'd love to force the ships to have full interiors, but that's not really feasible with 35k....  Right? 

HEY NUTTERCHAP! How much resource was spent on those full interior ironclads?

Oh, if not too many people wanna enter this, I'm tempted to allow up to three ships/fleets as long as they're visibly different, eg: Casemate, Monitor, Broadsider. Or vastly different sized guns and turret placement and such.
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#26
Hmm, can you make some tests with unpowered paddles?
Namely, in config with no engines, sideways paddle in place of JBG and some not too cheesy wheels for propulsion: will this setup together with ACB's needed be cheaper than engine, fuel and propellers? Will it work good enough and be durable enough under expected bombardment? Will they be fragile enough in stupid sizes to compensate for better speeds?
If so, then we can do "semi-unlimited paddles, but no engines" thing.

And sails probably don't need any limits, right? Never used them, but in campaign designs they usually not too good.
Makes things.
The fastest thing in the universe is sluggish... Years, decades, centuries from star to star.
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#27
(2018-08-08, 05:36 AM)DraWay Wrote: Hmm, can you make some tests with unpowered paddles?
Namely, in config with no engines, sideways paddle in place of JBG and some not too cheesy wheels for propulsion: will this setup together with ACB's needed be cheaper than engine, fuel and propellers? Will it work good enough and be durable enough under expected bombardment? Will they be fragile enough in stupid sizes to compensate for better speeds?
If so, then we can do "semi-unlimited paddles, but no engines" thing.

And sails probably don't need any limits, right? Never used them, but in campaign designs they usually not too good.

I'd say limiting the number of paddlewheels off of the central bar is a good idea. Looking at the City-class river ironclads have a paddlewheel with a diameter of 6.7 meters. That would be 3 paddles long on each side of the central shaft to get 7 meters. I'd say that's a good 'paddle diameter' number to avoid cheese. They can make it as long as they like, if it fits the ship. But that also means if it gets hit, it's more likely to be lost. So they'll need to armor them up if they want to keep the speed it gives without needing engines.

If the sideways paddles work like a JBG, we'll go to that for proper, vulnerable rudders. >:3

quick edit: As for sails. I've made some very derpy sailing ships for my variant of the Strike Fleets. They like to try flying when they go over 10m/s...
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#28
I have actually made a purely sail powered craft that does 120m/s before, but I don't think that's much of a concern because it's easy to spot sail cheese.
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#29
(2018-08-08, 07:24 AM)Skullsploder Wrote: I have actually made a purely sail powered craft that does 120m/s before, but I don't think that's much of a concern because it's easy to spot sail cheese.

There's something special with sails? 
I only know they can be fast, and I know that it needs some special, much more vulnerable design to get it in 'legal' way.

@Captain_Fox, with paddles we need not only limit them, but have them still good enough as alternative to propellers
Makes things.
The fastest thing in the universe is sluggish... Years, decades, centuries from star to star.
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#30
I stacked like 5 sails on a single mast and jib and magically it gives 5x the thrust of a single sail, and I also did this on a hydrofoil craft with almost nothing below the water and an extremely aerodynamic alloy body. So yeah, should be easy to spot cheese, and legal sails on defensible hulls shouldn't achieve anywhere near those speeds.
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