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A random idea/suggestion thread: Double-wide battleship, turrets on pistons?

#1
Just a thought I had.

If you make a ship shorter and fatter, then the internal area is larger relative to its surface area (and thus area you need to armor and shield), right?

So why not just make a battleship that is shorter but wider?

The answer, of course, is because "even if you put two turrets side by side, one will block the other during broadsides."

You can potentially get around this by making a frontal "broadside" ship that just has all the turrets on the front, but this leads you to a situation where a long battle either becomes a ramming operation or winds up having you show your weak backside to them eventually.

So, how to deal with this...

Well, I guess you could build a warp system inside the ship that teleports it backwards every time its distance to the enemy gets below a certain point.



But I digress. The reason I made this topic is for another idea.

Simply, make the ship two-turrets wide. However, put each turret on one or more pistons. Use ACBs or Lua or something to make it so that one side's turrets raise up, depending on which side the enemy is on.

And thus you have: A ship that is two turrets wide, but can still do a proper sideways broadside because pistons raise up the far side's turrets to allow them to shoot over the near side's turrets. If the enemy is on the other side, those pistons retract of course, and its the other side whose turrets rise up.


Well, if someone starts tiring of your usual "normal" battleship, it might be worth messing around with at least.

Come to think of it. Couldn't you also use warp systems warp backwards and forwards every number of seconds by a bit (slightly different distances though, so if you warp back after warping forwards you won't just be in the same spot they fired at previously)
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Your giant expensive powerful warship of doom can be destroyed by dropping an anvil on it. One day, I will finally have enough engines to actually make a ship without stopping to make more engines.
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#2
Ever heard of reverse? That's how aerial forward broadsiders work, plus recoil.


Anyways, that's a really neat idea. There are a few problems, though. However you do it, you will need a turret with a block and several ACBs to figure out the logic because stupid AI.

If you leave extra space in the well, meaning maybe an extra 3m to raise 3m, then that's 3m of wasted turret well, plus you'll nead some decent-looking neck armor for that to look good.
If you move everything, including the on-hull turret armor and on-hull neck, that's something which can be easily broken, and it'll likely mean a whole box raises up from your ship.
If you just make everything normal, just the turret is on a piston, or the gun is on a piston on the turret, then that'll be some ugly and vulnerable clipping.

There may be another way or 2, too.

There's also the option of centerline, but wider, turrets. So rather than 2, 9x9s side by side as you proposed, you could have one 17x17, though space between turrets (front-to-back) would need to bigger, it would allow all guns to face one side.

Alternatevely, you could have a few big central guns, but also rely on side-mounted secondaries for much of the damage, like the vehicle shown below, which only has one gun unable to fire at 20-30* fron straight.


Attached Files Thumbnail(s)
   
(2017-04-20, 06:54 PM)Hikari Wrote: I made something that has an impact of a type 1a supernova. The projectile already breaks laws of physics by going way past the speed of light.

2000mm HE Dakka Enthusiast
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#3
I propose going EVEN FURTHER BEYOND. Make a ship with a squareish layout when looked down on from above, possibly a catamaran, but probably a shallow draft monohull for armouring efficiency. Give it 4 big turrets, or maybe 5 if you're okay with not having a superstructure in the center. The turrets would be at each corner and, optionally, one in the middle, with the middle one in superfiring position relative to every other turret, with the minimum possible clearance. The corner turrets would all be the same height when retracted, and when extended would beable to fire over the center turret. Ideally, the sheath around the turret would be raised with it, forming a barbette when in the extended position. The control would be fairly simple, despite taking up a bit of space:

Code:
..UUUUU..
....o....
H...o...K
H...o...K
H...t...K
H.......K
H.......K
.........
..JJJJJ..

Where the dots are just floor, the o's and t show the turret filler and turret block respectively (LWC would probably be one of the o's for space efficiency), and the H's, K's, U's, and J's indicate ACBs which output that control when they detect an object in front of them. If we take the top of that diagram (U) to indicate the front of the ship, while H and K represent port and starboard respectively, then you'd have it so that both starboard turrets raise on H and lower on K, while port turrets raise on K and lower on H. Additionally, both front turrets will raise on J and lower on U, while the rear turrets will raise on U and lower on J. This will result in a situation where any enemy, on any side of the ship, will always be engaged by every single one of the turrets the ship possesses. Plus, the ship gets to be made in a very efficient near-square shape, allowing more armour for a given cost.
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#4
Brick 
What about rotating turrets around the hull? Like the one on the Arcadia? I made a Conceptcraft to test the idea and it seems fitting for Air- and Spaceships.

.blueprint   Arcadia Main Battery Concept.blueprint (Size: 64.82 KB / Downloads: 2)
I then expanded the concept into a functional vehicle and sended it into Jimmer's "King of the Hill"-Tournament, where it got beaten. Which was not surprising considering it was made of wood.

.blueprint   Deathshadow Arcadia.blueprint (Size: 343.43 KB / Downloads: 2)
But you need 24 Detection-ACBs and 6 custom controlled ACBs per Spinblock for this to work, which is a lot. You might be able to get it down to 16 Detection-ACBs and 4 custom controlled ACBs per Spinner, if you don't set up any configuration when the enemy is in front or behind you.
When having problems please provide:
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Otherwise help is not possible.
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#5
Ah.. have tge turrets be mounted in a turntable so they wilk akways face the ebemy... very neat but very wasteful, as yoy actually end up with what is essentially a large turret with no guns, with small turrets on it.

The easy and dirty way of doing this properly is by putting the turret on a spinblock. Then you can place another such spinblocjed turret right next to it. Make sure the barrels are long enough so that they clip straight trough the other turret.

It us exploity but it works. Currently, frontal resistance is relatively less tgen longitudinal resistance, favoring short but wide designs for max speed. However, a traditional briadsider with turrets at the extreme front and rear will be shot often in CoM, thus suffeeing very few huts on the weaponry. Something to consider.

Finally, you can try short barrels and low muzzle velocity. This majes tge gun shoit at extreme arc, lobbing the shells over tge turret right in front of it. A bit like those meta ships found in old mentis bbrawl.

CRAM CRASH COURSE

(There is) A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up;
-Ecclesiastes 3:3
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#6
If you use that arcing-shot LUA (I think there is at least one that fires shots at 45% angle or higher), you could of course also just point a bunch of fixed CRAMs straight up and basically blast the enemy with a mortar-CRAM-spam. Could probably work with APS too, though I don't know if you can get away with fixed guns with those.
Your giant expensive powerful warship of doom can be destroyed by dropping an anvil on it. One day, I will finally have enough engines to actually make a ship without stopping to make more engines.
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#7
(2018-07-16, 09:56 PM)KuramaFox Wrote: If you use that arcing-shot LUA (I think there is at least one that fires shots at 45% angle or higher), you could of course also just point a bunch of fixed CRAMs straight up and basically blast the enemy with a mortar-CRAM-spam. Could probably work with APS too, though I don't know if you can get away with fixed guns with those.

You can but you will end up with about 2km max range for indirect fire due to shell despawning mid-flight :-(
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#8
Cool idea, would like to see it in action.
My primary concern would be the sudden offset of balance as weight on one side ends up far higher and thus both more recoil torque from the turrets and gravity trying to flip the ship.
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#9
PIDs could negate the balance problem. I was able to get a Vanguard to be almost completely stable with the HundertLaufer's main gun hidden beneath the hull and then rotating around the ship to go back on top, basically a Vanguard Q-ship.
(2017-04-20, 06:54 PM)Hikari Wrote: I made something that has an impact of a type 1a supernova. The projectile already breaks laws of physics by going way past the speed of light.

2000mm HE Dakka Enthusiast
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#10
(2018-07-18, 03:52 AM)khaz Wrote: Cool idea, would like to see it in action.
My primary concern would be the sudden offset of balance as weight on one side ends up far higher and thus both more recoil torque from the turrets and gravity trying to flip the ship.

Well, the concept would likely be used on either a really wide ship, or on a catamaran or trimaran. Multi-hull ships like those are basically easy mode for not flipping over, so flipping should be difficult to do. Odds are, if you are managing to flip over, you are working with a design that you may as well just use a larger central turret anyway.
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Your giant expensive powerful warship of doom can be destroyed by dropping an anvil on it. One day, I will finally have enough engines to actually make a ship without stopping to make more engines.
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