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Poll: Are you planning to take part in this tournament?
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yes
61.11%
11 61.11%
yes - would like to submit more than one entry
16.67%
3 16.67%
nope
22.22%
4 22.22%
Total 18 vote(s) 100%
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Sea Encounters - Light Cruisers [finalised]

#1
Star 

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Congrats Tomson for creating USS Senator, Sea Encounters - Light Cruisers main and Combined Arms tournaments winner.

[Image: YJDCvkS.jpg]

Participants
CritShot by Anickle
Kirishima by TheLightLOD
Serolik-Class -Prince- by Captain_Fox
Sumatra by Cythphn
USS Senator by Tomson
Phoebus by DraWay
Königsberg by Skyer
KSS Pepe by T3hJimmer
ORP Eagle Mk 2 by harnas1977
Graaf van Gelre by Awellner
Wilkes-Barr class Protected Cruiser --MOD2-- by Firedune
Imperator by Blunderguy
Vanguard by LtColTeddyBear
HMS Damnation by Dygrelan
HMS Belfast by NutterChap

Current Scores
link to the tracking sheet with all battles and scores

Battle log
★★★ Round 1 ★★★
SE LC B16 CritShot vs Kirishima
SE LC B17 Prince vs Sumatra
SE LC B18 USS Senator vs Phoebus
SE LC B19 Königsberg vs KSS Pepe
SE LC B20 Graaf vs Eagle
SE LC B21 Imperator vs Wilkes Barr
SE LC B22 HMS Damnation vs Vanguard
SE LC B23 Belfast vs CritShot

★★★ Round 0 ★★★
Congratulatory Air Sweeper Cup for best performance in our special challenge round goes to Sumatra by Cythphn
[Image: RBLLTSA.png]

[video=youtube]https://youtu.be/dfVj37gcfww[/video]
[video=youtube]https://youtu.be/9RVxyefc-gA[/video]
[video=youtube]https://youtu.be/1oHSIVZ7gts[/video]
[video=youtube]https://youtu.be/GxHSGUL7gfQ[/video]
[video=youtube]https://youtu.be/dhjMajOZ8R4[/video]
[video=youtube]https://youtu.be/07nzxlELuu0[/video]
[video=youtube]https://youtu.be/6i_zEH_UUm0[/video]
[video=youtube]https://youtu.be/2GoTLB7ryHM[/video]
[video=youtube]https://youtu.be/VfHn2NEDYJg[/video]
[video=youtube]https://youtu.be/-HveooYynwM[/video]
[video=youtube]https://youtu.be/C9_vEafgxdU[/video] ^^April's fool Tongue
[video=youtube]https://youtu.be/MLaX717Gd1Q[/video]
[video=youtube]https://youtu.be/HcG3elKgc84[/video]
[video=youtube]https://youtu.be/e31ap_kJg10[/video]
[video=youtube]https://youtu.be/LXzdfZhQcA0[/video]
[video=youtube]https://youtu.be/KoQ44CMfZXo[/video]

Teaser videos
★★★ Duel teaser ★★★ [video=youtube]https://youtu.be/JtYk3UuSYcE[/video]

★★★ Air strike teaser ★★★[video=youtube]https://youtu.be/Ch8-nAHSqa0[/video]
primum non nocere
___________________________________
my tournaments:
★★★ Sea Encounters - Battleships! ★★★
★★★ Sea Encounters - Light Cruisers ★★★
Reply

#2
Lightbulb 
Concept
The idea behind the tournament is to create a battle system that would deliver the following
★ Semi-realistic/historical looking ships with an actual scores for design (vote by community), primary WW1&2 vessels with some “light fantasy” themes totally acceptable
★ Main focus on artillery duels that includes long range (FTD max is 5km) with some (dumb) torpedoes and bombs. All with modest fire rates
★ Extra challenges like “repel air strike” to ensure the armament is balanced and built to deal with historical threats

I hope to achieve this with core concepts of citadel, special rudder device (JitterBgone©) and careful component selection.

Design rules

Battlefield
★ Open ocean - no landmass (based on T3hJimmer's Pro Pain map)
★ I will be using w0otness's Tournament Mod
★ Spawn at 5000m, forward facing
★ Maximum distance at which you can sail away - 2000m. This means that the vehicles are expected to close in from 5000m to each other and then go into a brawl within 2000m range. Be careful and test your turning circle with your guns firing.
★ Allowed altitude between -10 and 10 meters
★ If vehicle will violate any the above 2 rules it will incur a penalty time. Maximum penalty time is 120s after which offender will self-detonate
★ Battle time - unlimited, battle to the death, unless both opponents are unable to inflict damage any more, then it’s a draw.

Resources
★ 60k material maximum to build your ship
★ Single ship only, no spawnsticks, no sub-vehicles
★ No resources provided meaning that repairs, ammo processing and steam engine power is not possible
★ Unlimited fuel
★ Unlimited ammo boxes - these can be placed only in citadel location. Citadel needs to be of a cuboid shape (each side is a rectangle) and at least 3x3x3 blocks. It needs to be made exclusively of ammo boxes (and AI components) each having a "path" to any other ammo box though other ammo boxes - ensures single detonation will get them all. If one ammo box explode- all explode and AI kill is ensured. Center of Mass indicator needs to be present inside of the citadel. Designers should consider armouring it well...
[Image: n5QMhnf.jpg]

AI
★ Any AI components are allowed but need to be placed inside of a citadel - see above. All AI Mainframes need to touch at least one ammo box to ensure ship goes down when citadel explosion happens.
★ Aim point selection card(s) can be set to anything - it’s ok for some armament to target key components (like citadel that ensures a kill) and some to go for random block (incapacitation, gun system destruction etc.)

Structural and buoyancy
★ Submissions need to be generally in the spirit of the competition, but top-notch, replica esthetics is not required. There will be scores for looks by community vote, so it might pay off to put some effort into it. Participants are encouraged to send description/history of their ships and photos (e.g. of historical ship it is based on)
★ Heavy armor is banned - not compatible with historical fire rates
★ Stone is banned - masons are on leave, too cheap and cheesy
★ Armor need to be placed in a balanced way on both sides of the ship
★ Shields are banned
★ Hydrofoils are banned - they provide too good stability and don’t encourage building for “passive buoyancy”
★ Air pumps are allowed now
★ Please place origin block somewhere on the water level (inside of the hull) so your ship is not spawned under water.

Steering, propulsion and engine power
★ Standard rudders are banned - they provide far too twitchy experience in its raw form in general and especially if we want to think about long range sniping
★ Each design needs to carry up to 2 JitterBgone© rudder devices. Each device consists of 3 standard propellers put on top of each other with a spin block at the bottom facing backwards. JitterBgone© devices need to be placed symmetrically behind center of mass so they don’t turn the ship when in idle position and should be controlled by a pair of ACBs. These need to be sensing left/right yaw and rotate to spinblox to +-85 degrees (or less). Builders are encouraged to put these in deep inside of the hull (out of sight - out of mind). It’s fine to create an spin block fake rudder for looks only which can use same ACBs as JitterBgone© devices do (you might get some extra votes for looks). This solution provides smooth, gradual turning force introducing shift time.
[Image: 6IqqGGV.jpg]
[Image: xU5VdE7.jpg]

★ Any other form of steering is banned including differential thrust
★ Any form of propulsion is banned with exception of huge propellers
★ Number of Huge propellers is limited to 3. These need to be placed symmetrically behind center of mass so they make the ship turned when powered. These need to be facing back and fully exposed from the back side. Expected speed is in the region of around 12m/s (23 knots) for typical design and as such is not capped. More speed could be achieved with hulls build for it (less mass, less drag).
★ Drive fraction of propellers or their turning speed cannot be altered during the match (via ACB or otherwise)
★ Engine power needs to be delivered from fuel engines only

Detection equipment
★ Not required - detection is going to be set to 0.99

Weapons
Weapons need to be placed in a balanced way on both sides of the ship, but absolute left/right symmetry is not required.
All weapon types are optional.

Main guns
★ APS only
★ Maximum of 30 components per firing piece.
★ Maximum of 180 component overall used for main guns
★ Maximum number of 2 barrels per firing piece
★ Banned components - shell ejectors, graviton ram, EMP, timed, altitude and proximity fuses, squash head (aka HESH), shaped charge (aka HEAT)
★ Minimum blocks to engage - 500 (set at LWC) - no main guns shooting at the planes (you need to depend on your secondary/AA suite here)

Secondary guns
★ APS only
★ Maximum caliber - 200 mm
★ Maximum of 20 components per firing piece.
★ Maximum number of 2 barrels per firing piece
★ No maximum total number of components for secondary guns!
★ Banned components - shell ejectors, graviton ram, EMP, altitude and proximity fuses
★ Can act as a AA and anti-torpedo

AA suite
★ Maximum of 4 autocannons total (consider making some of secondaries as dual purpose/AA)
★ Maximum engage distance 750m (set at LWC)
★ Minimum altitude to engage - 10 (set at LWC) - autocannons cannot shoot ships

Torpedoes
★ Maximum of 25 gantries
★ Minimum 5 ganties per launch pad - to prevent micro torp/granade spamming
★ Banned components - EMP, IR/radar seekers, laser receivers, torpedo sonar, missile interceptor, LUA

Other
★ Single simple ram is allowed
All other weapons are banned that includes the nuke - as it would be nice to be able to examine ship damage (e.g. citadel pen) after ship gets a critical hit

Other rules
★ Excessive clippling is banned (check your turrets and spinblocks)
★ Ships need to be able to significant damage to itself against itself
★ No Lua

These rules are to be considered final, but it is still possible that some adjustments are to be made.

Tournament format and scoring
★ Each entry will face any other entry (unless I get too much submissions to do that)
★ One of the special entries will be air strike group made by myself and consisting of 15-20 planes (bombers and torpedo bombers)
★ 1-2 rounds per match until one of the entry is destroyed unless both opponents are unable to inflict damage any more
★ Each round: one points per opponent's % health loss
★ Each round: one points per own vehicle's % health retained
    Example
  • In round one: ship A destroyed ship B and had 80% health left
  • ship A gets 100+80 = 180 points.
  • ship B gets (100-80)+0 = 20 points.
  • In round two: Ships incapacitated each other to a draw with ship A 60% health left and ship B 70%
  • ship A gets (100-70)+60 = 90 points.
  • ship B gets (100-60)+70 = 110 points.
  • Overall match score: ship A gets 180+90 = 270 points and ship B gets 20+110 = 130 points.
★ After a match is published it's going to be a subject of community vote in the forum. Where each voter would be able to choose between the two competitors. One points per % of votes. For example getting 80% of votes means 80 points. These points are going to be added to the overall match score.
    Voting criteria
  • pleasing looks and adherence to the spirit of competition (historical/light fantasy)
  • swimming proudly in the water (vessel's freeboard)
  • avoiding any cheese behaviour

Submitting your entry
★ I will be accepting a single entry per participant.
★ Please send a link to your single blueprint via PM with "Sea Encounters" in the title
★ Please name your blueprint as (your ship's name) by (your name)
★ Include short description of your entry and a single optional photo (could be your ship or the one you are basing your design on) - this is going to be used for voting
★ Include weapons manifesto (complete list of your weapons) using the following format
    Main guns
  • (optional turret name): (number of turrets) * (number of guns per turret) * (calibre) (number of components per gun)
    (…)
    Secondary guns
  • (optional turret name): (number of turrets) * (number of guns per turret) * (calibre) (number of components per gun)
    (…)
    AA suite
  • (number of turrets) * (number of simple autocannons per turret)
    Torpedoes
  • (optional turret name): (number of turrets) * (number of launcher pads per turret) (number of gantries per pad)
    (…)

Example:
ORP Eagle weapons manifesto
    Main guns
  • Front Punisher: 2 * 2 * 285mm 30 components
  • Back Finisher: 1 * 2 * 305mm 30 components
    Secondary guns
  • Pinker: 6 * 1 * 150mm 19 components
  • Jabber: 2 * 1 * 200mm 19 components
    AA suite
  • 2 * 2
    Torpedoes
  • Sinker: 1 * 5 5 gantries
no rams
★ Submissions will be accepted by 24/3

Happy building!
primum non nocere
___________________________________
my tournaments:
★★★ Sea Encounters - Battleships! ★★★
★★★ Sea Encounters - Light Cruisers ★★★
Reply

#3
The need to be able to deal with sir threat is nice, but hardly tennable. Unless your cruiser must also spawn in aircrafts, and unless tricks are alliwed to make aircraft go 100ms and have some form of powetful weapons, and only if primary gun LWC ate banned from shooting st targets abive 10m or so, only then is a dedicated AA suite necessary. Also, AA better not be allowed to shoot at targets below 10m or so, otherwise AA cruisers may become the norm.

The citadel rule is to artificial. Rectangular armored boxes wete only used for magazines. The actual citadel is everythingvthat is civered by tge main armir belt and anti torpedo bulges. This includes nagazines machinery spaces and in this case, should include AIs. To force all tgat into a single citadel box may cause sudden critical loss after only minimal amount if explosions.

I really like the idea of this tournament. Please allow multiple entries.... Smile

CRAM CRASH COURSE

(There is) A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up;
-Ecclesiastes 3:3
Reply

#4
(2018-02-21, 06:39 AM)NutterChap Wrote: The need to be able to deal with sir threat is nice, but hardly tennable. Unless your cruiser must also spawn in aircrafts, and unless tricks are alliwed to make aircraft go 100ms and have some form of powetful weapons, and only if primary gun LWC ate banned from shooting st targets abive 10m or so, only then is a dedicated AA suite necessary. Also, AA better not be allowed to shoot at targets below 10m or so, otherwise AA cruisers may become the norm.

Main guns are banned from engaging below 500 blocks which ensures planes are left alone. So you need to rely on secondaries and those 4 simple autocannons. I prefer the block count limit because it is still cheese to see the main guns shooting planes (temporarily) in water.
Strike planes are going to be provided and I've developed special torpedo and bomb plane for the tournament. They are very small but attack an masse - 3 squadrons - 5 planes each. They currently do around 50 m/s but I am considering to make them somewhat faster. Nevertheless as they are now they do have damaging potential and can sometimes blow up demo Eagle cruiser.
“Repel air strike” demo is the next video I am going to post..

(2018-02-21, 06:39 AM)NutterChap Wrote: The citadel rule is to artificial. Rectangular armored boxes wete only used for magazines. The actual citadel is everythingvthat is civered by tge main armir belt and anti torpedo bulges. This includes nagazines machinery spaces and in this case, should include AIs. To force all tgat into a single citadel box may cause sudden critical loss after only minimal amount if explosions.
I am aware of that, but don't like so see ammo being used as a distraction and banning aimpoint leads to random shooting problems. Citadel can be armoured as much as the designer wants to (and I would definitely encourage it)
I forgot to add in a rule that citadel needs to be placed so that CoM is inside it.

(2018-02-21, 06:39 AM)NutterChap Wrote: I really like the idea of this tournament. Please allow multiple entries.... Smile
Thanks. I am definitely considering that.
primum non nocere
___________________________________
my tournaments:
★★★ Sea Encounters - Battleships! ★★★
★★★ Sea Encounters - Light Cruisers ★★★
Reply

#5
Cool video. I like the Eagle Cruiser. Smile The citadel rule is interesting. This time we might see a tournament where the vehicles aren't crippled completely before an AI death. Nice big explosions are fun to watch. Maybe APS ejectors should be banned too to make turret detonations more common. I also like the need of AA guns. Should make things more interesting. I hope the planes will attack while the ships are sailing towards the 1500m distance. In the demo vid not much happened for a while so a bit of plane action would be pretty cool there. If I'll have time I'll probably make a ship for this. Sounds like fun!
Reply

#6
(2018-02-21, 09:30 AM)Tomson Wrote: Cool video. I like the Eagle Cruiser. Smile The citadel rule is interesting. This time we might see a tournament where the vehicles aren't crippled completely before an AI death. Nice big explosions are fun to watch.
Thanks Tomson.

(2018-02-21, 09:30 AM)Tomson Wrote: Maybe APS ejectors should be banned too to make turret detonations more common.
I agree banning ejectors would indeed add the extra benefit - I'll add this to the rule set.

(2018-02-21, 09:30 AM)Tomson Wrote: I also like the need of AA guns. Should make things more interesting. I hope the planes will attack while the ships are sailing towards the 1500m distance. In the demo vid not much happened for a while so a bit of plane action would be pretty cool there. If I'll have time I'll probably make a ship for this. Sounds like fun!

I was thinking about a separate round with planese against single ship. Scenario you are describing provides a challenge because of difficulty to trace through all the entities (air squads are going to be large - c.a. 15 planes).
Eage's main guns are not using the full allowed APS component count and the shell is not really optimised, so I am sure there will more accurate and devastating fire going at the range. Also, the close-in window provides an opportunity to have a look at the entries as esthetics count.
primum non nocere
___________________________________
my tournaments:
★★★ Sea Encounters - Battleships! ★★★
★★★ Sea Encounters - Light Cruisers ★★★
Reply

#7
I have thought of a tournament like this, including its rules and what not. I found it hard to make planes be effective and be a good reason to include hefty AA suites, especially in scale 2:1 or 1:1. In that frame, I also built a demo cruiser myself (though adhering to rules I had in mind). Im now at work, but perhaps I can dump it here for your evaluation.

Cruisers, especially the smaller ones, had dual purpose primaries. I reckon those are out of the question with this rule set.

60K materials feels quite limited. No heavy cruisers here, even proper light cruisers might be hard to pull off. Given 250mm being the smallest primary caliber allowed, which is battlecruiser kind of firewpower, please consider 100K material limit. I understand the additional aircraft + 2 100K vessels sounds like a lot, but menti was able to make a video in season 2 of my entry (2x 100K ships) fighting another 200K entry. maybe your computer is worse than his, but I reckon it should be doable. Smile

"No resources provided meaning that repairs, ammo processing and steam engine power is not possible." This I really like. No crutches, plain old 'bring enough boom'. In that case, please also ban ammo ejectors, like Tomson also proposed. Those are not quite realistic in WW1/2 styling. And: explosions!

Also, nukes banned? Perhaps have us need to add nukes to the citadel/magazines, so you can clearly see when a magazines goes poof.

Banning air pumps is not ideal, I think. Most ships might turn into wood blockspam. Im not sure if they really add too much lag (though perhaps they actually do, I just wouldnt know).

Having actual anti-torpedo secondary guns is... well, not 'semi-realistic' in the WW1/2 era paradigm. I would rather see a total bann of active antimunition defenses.



I still struggle with the 'citadel' you require. I dont like the implications and limitations in design that it brings.
-'must be cuboid'. Does this mean it has to be a cube, or is 5x5xn also possible?
-Only having 1 location where all ammo is located and all AI components, begs for a high-penetration main gun spam that can obliterate the COM (which is a standard aim point setting location). This leads to the need to make near-circular designs, as otherwise you will not have all the armor on the citadel you can get. I feel this forces very similar armor designs and therefore similar hulls.
-The fact that a single citadel with all important bits in it cause sudden end-of-life of a vessel if it goes 'kaput'. This gives a higher 'luck' factor into the tournament.
-The goal of this 'citadel' appears to be to ensure that ammo boxes and AI components are not used to fool the aimpoint selection. I think there are better solutions to it. I dont like to be forced to put all eggs in 1 (small) armored basket, and thus be forced to armor that as good as I can, going all all-or-nothing with the armor scheme. I rather be able to distribute the important bits in a realistic way, without putting ammo boxes in masts, or make a rake behind the ship with assorted AIs and ammoboxes attached.

I propose this:
+AI in conning towers (which are just heavily armored boxes) above the waterline and a compartment under the waterline directly under the superstructure (aiming for AI results in superstructure hits, quickly deleting the AA suite, secondaries, and damaging primary turret caps, or aiming for the belt armor underneath the superstructure. This is important due to the next point.)
+Ammoboxes must be concentrated in magazines. 1 magazine placed adjacent to each main turret, plus a dedicated magazine for secondaries and one for AA, both sitting in or under the superstructure. (Aiming for ammo will force shooting a magazine which will either blow up a main turret or leave a large hole in the block-rich superstructure.)
If you set up the rules to force this kind of valuables-concentration, I'd be OK with that. I think this is enough to effectively make sure no stray ammoboxes or AIs are luring the aimpoint selection to an unimportant bit of ship, while forgoing the possibility of getting practically one-shotted.

Forcing walkability of the interior ensures that the magazines are an armored shell of at least 3 cubic meters of volume, of which 2 cubic meters are for being able to walk into it and the third cubic meter is the single ammo boxes. In previous design contests and tournaments where walkable interiors (and serviceable ship systems) were a thing, more realistic designs emerged.

Finally, 3 screws is a bit few, and 12m/s is a bit slow. I suppose cruisers should be able to do 30kts, which corresponds roughly with 15.4ms. Even with a proper hull, this is hard to obtain with just 3 screws. I can provide a 200% or 300% power screw block and post it here, so people can get decent propulsion power for 2 or 3 screw designs. This would of course be a simple BP with the screw in question, which then can be made into a placeable thing. Just ban the thing from being used in your patented JitterBgone©.

I havent seen a system like JitterBgone© in a working ship, so Im keen to see how it makes the ships turn. This should be interesting. Smile

All this blahblah is not critique, mind you. rather, it's feedback (meant to be anyway). I'm excited to build a design for this tournament, actually. Smile
Most other rules look good. I was dabbling with RoF limiting formulas for APS AA ranging from 20mm to 40mm, but maybe just limiting max nr of components is better.

Perhaps make sure you NEED primaries. Because perhaps it may become a funny idea to build an aircraft carrier (cruiser conversion) with so many secondaries, the dakka would be real.

CRAM CRASH COURSE

(There is) A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up;
-Ecclesiastes 3:3
Reply

#8
This looks intriguing. Big Grin

Well I am a viewer anyway, I don't have enough time to answer all the threads I want to, let alone build a working Submission...but hey, life happens Big Grin

However, I'd like to give some feedback on your rules:

- force detection system usage, simulate loss of control with allowing General purpose processing only in the conning tower/fire stands (similar to amneberry accords building rules, those are rather elaborate for replica-ish builds); this will simulate loss command (captain/officers/artillery crew)

- more freedom for the citadel, because if someone manages to pack a turtleback into a light cruiser frame, kudos to this guy Smile I am totally in agreement that all the important stuff should be close, though without much redundancy (cruisers are not battleships)

- some limit in the relation amount of main guns/secondary/AA Equipment (although there are some limitations already in place)

- small main batteries (let's say up to 6"/127mm guns?) should be usable as multipurpose AA, with restricted ammo configurations (to prevent Trollatlantas spewing stupendous amounts of HEAP at their enemy)
(2018-03-12, 05:51 AM)Chunkblaster Wrote: @Lord O' Talons What Anime is that?

(2018-03-12, 01:22 PM)Lord O Talons Wrote: BM effects and docking stations.

---lolwhat Big Grin
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#9
(2018-02-21, 03:33 PM)Tyr3n Wrote: ...

- force detection system usage, simulate loss of control with allowing General purpose processing only in the conning tower/fire stands (similar to amneberry accords building rules, those are rather elaborate for replica-ish builds); this will simulate loss command (captain/officers/artillery crew)

- more freedom for the citadel, because if someone manages to pack a turtleback into a light cruiser frame, kudos to this guy Smile I am totally in agreement that all the important stuff should be close, though without much redundancy (cruisers are not battleships)

- some limit in the relation amount of main guns/secondary/AA Equipment (although there are some limitations already in place)

- small main batteries (let's say up to 6"/127mm guns?) should be usable as multipurpose AA, with restricted ammo configurations (to prevent Trollatlantas spewing stupendous amounts of HEAP at their enemy)

harnas, Tyren has some interesting points here. Especially about the turtleback (why did you have to spoil my plans, Tyr?) and the small primary gun calibre. It are light cruisers. The 200mm+ minimum guage seems excessive for a light cruiser. That is heavy cruiser/battlecruiser size of guns. I myself wouldve gone for 4 triple 170mm turrets on the primaries, if allowed, and 5 inch dual turrets as secondaries, on top of multiple 40mm class frag spewers as 'secondaries', actually my real AA. I would totally forgo the autocannons. Smile Also, I second the plea for more citadel freedom.

CRAM CRASH COURSE

(There is) A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up;
-Ecclesiastes 3:3
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#10
looks intresting,
i dont quite get the ammo rule, are we supposed to only have ONE ammo pile? or are 3 5x5x5 piles allowed too?
if so this might result in cheap losses due to unlucky targeting, i get that youre trying to ban the 3m spaced ammo "cheese" but please allow multieple piles Tongue
and does it have to be 5 tall? this is much taller than my standard ship layouts for for 60k budget
would the same volume but only 3 or 4 tall be fine too? 6x7x3 for example
having nukes being forced to be placed in the ammo piles or below each maingun might be intresting depending on how much damage they do, aestetics is important right?

also whats the point of AA guns if theres no subspawns allowed? maybe allow 1-2 planes but only use them for dropping magnets or unguided torpedos?
maybe limit their ammo to 200 so they need to redock to refil ammo? and limit the amount of gantries per plane
limit their engine power and only allow dediblades so theyre not too fast, or just hardcap their speed at <80 m/s
FIRE ZE CANNONS!!
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