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Poll: What are Your Political Views
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Democrat
22.58%
7 22.58%
Republican
12.90%
4 12.90%
Fascist
6.45%
2 6.45%
Socialist
16.13%
5 16.13%
Other
41.94%
13 41.94%
Total 31 vote(s) 100%
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What are Your Political Views?

#91
As a Belgian european I sometimes have a little trouble discerning what native USA or UK people mean with their democrats, and republicans and tories and whatnots.
It doesn't help that we consider liberalism to be rightist while it's common slander for the entire left everywhere on the interwebs ...

We don't have a direct equivalent of the conservatives, democrats, republicans or anything either around here. In all cases, note, I'm very grateful for that. Wink

for reference, democrats and the labour party are generally branded anywhere from liberal center right to libertarian in our papers. Whilst we generally consider the republicans a rather backwards bunch and the conservatives an icky far right group, all being regularly branded as social darwinists and the like.

Funnily, since liberalism is strictly seen as the ideology that aims for unrestrained free markets and personal freedom without state regulation, we mostly regard the republicans as simply being a lot further down the same alley as the democrats. that is to say, one is liberal-libertarian, and the other is straight up social darwinist, with one being the extremist extension of the other.

We generally consider UK and USA democracy to be just a little retarded, and far to skewed to the right for comfort

I shouldn't be rolling my eyes at other nation's politics though. i'm Belgian after all. We have two wholly distinct sets of parties, far too many of them, and 7 governments.
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#92
No, you should totally be rolling your eyes at US and UK politics, they are utterly moronic and worthy of every possible gesture of anguish, disdain, and contempt. Since both countries have large militaries and considerable nuclear arsenals, a little fear is also probably appropriate. Like on might feel on seeing a seven year old with an RPG.
A great nation is not a nation that rules the world. A great nation is a nation that realizes they don't have to.
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#93
(2017-12-31, 06:51 AM)Unhinged mechanic Wrote: You haven't adressed my point in the slightest. Why is is that a democratically elected leader will automatically decide to use their power to better themselves, but a dictator who is simply appointed will always have the best interests of their nation at heart? All a fascist system does is remove all checks on the power of a potentially corrupt individual.

And you haven't even TRIED to adress the fundamental hole in the entire idea of nationalisim: that a nation only exists in order to provide better conditions for it's people, doing it the other way around makes absolutely no sense. All a nations borders and power are are lines on a map. They don't mean anything.

You are stating something as fact without anything to back it up. Why should your definition of a country be more valid than mine? I believe the people should serve their country for the greater good.

You're an individualist, fundamentally, and I'm a collectivist. We're just fundamentally different philosophy wise.

And yes, borders on a map DO mean something unless you're a globalist piece of trash.

Also,

a dictator who is simply appointed will always have the best interests of their nation at heart? All a fascist system does is remove all checks on the power of a potentially corrupt individual.
Actually, no. A fascist system ensures that someone of good character and loyalty to their country has complete power and ability to correct mistakes done by democratically elected goons.

A democracy functionally cannot sustain itself because it is a system that has more checks, yes, but these checks more often than not make it harder for a man of good conscious and character to get in. Look at the US for example. You can't run for president or even office without good financial backing. Where do you get this financial backing? Businesses and bankers.

Fundamentally a democracy is slaved to its' economic backing, whereas in a fascist state it is the other way around.
"It is dangerous to be right in matters on which the established authorities are wrong" -Voltaire
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#94
What kind of state IRL has a functional fascism in the world Fuzzah ?
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#95
You're using circular logic. You assume that the appointed leader will be a "good" leader, but you have no actual mechanism by which this can be made sure of. And since a fascist dictator has absolute power, if they are NOT a good leader, they can do whatever the duck they want and ruin everything, and no one has the legal authority to stop them. See Hitler, Stalin, Mussolini, Ect. Weather or not you consider their systems to be like you're ideal, they had absolute power, as a fascist dictator would, and they abused the duck out of it.

Historically, non-democratic systems are also full of intrigues of all kinds. Even if we assume the dictator put in place at the establishment of this system is perfect, sooner or later, they're going to die, then who replaces them? Becoming the next leader of a nation will always require the political support of various powerful people, and then you find yourself in exactly the same situation as a democracy that has too much money in politics. The dictator will owe favors to all the people that helped them come to power. This problem could be much more easily solved by simply having a fixed, state provided campaign budged for anyone running for a high office.

Your nationalist collectivist stance still doesn't take into account what the "greater good" is. Having more of your color on the map? Why? What does that gain. "Unless you are a globalist piece of trash" is also a circular argument. Globalism is bad because it's bad?
A great nation is not a nation that rules the world. A great nation is a nation that realizes they don't have to.
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#96
(2018-01-01, 10:58 PM)mrvecz Wrote: What kind of state IRL has a functional fascism in the world Fuzzah ?

None. I'm not actually a fascist, I think Fascism is soulless and inspired by bolshevism.

You're using circular logic. You assume that the appointed leader will be a "good" leader, but you have no actual mechanism by which this can be made sure of. And since a fascist dictator has absolute power, if they are NOT a good leader, they can do whatever the duck they want and ruin everything, and no one has the legal authority to stop them. See Hitler, Stalin, Mussolini, Ect. Weather or not you consider their systems to be like you're ideal, they had absolute power, as a fascist dictator would, and they abused the duck out of it.


Mussolini, while yes, he was a fascist, brought his country out of poverty and gave the people a newfound identity.

Hitler.. too touchy to address so I'll leave that out.

Stalin was a dictator, yes, but not one inspired by his people or country. In fact, he wasn't even Russian. He was Georgian.

As much as I might dislike fascist states because they take too much away from personal freedom (national socialism DOES NOT do this), 9/10 times the leaders have always been good people personally and did what they thought was right (no matter how you feel about their actions).
"It is dangerous to be right in matters on which the established authorities are wrong" -Voltaire
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#97
Given that Mussolini's people rebelled against him, I'd say that he wasn't as popular and benevolent as you make him out to be.
A great nation is not a nation that rules the world. A great nation is a nation that realizes they don't have to.
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#98
(2018-01-02, 02:29 AM)Unhinged mechanic Wrote: Given that Mussolini's people rebelled against him, I'd say that he wasn't as popular and benevolent as you make him out to be.

Sorry, no, he was couped by fellow fascists because they saw the war was hopeless. There was no popular push to overthrow Mussolini.

In fact, records show that Mussolini's supporters managed to capture his corpse and preserved it til it was found again, decades later(?)

In fact, even today there's an outstanding ""cult"" of Mussolinian-Fascist supporters in Italy, as seen here:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worl...ca8a6a80f7

The country literally has to ban souvenirs because they're afraid of hatespeech.. LOL!
"It is dangerous to be right in matters on which the established authorities are wrong" -Voltaire
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#99
That just illustrates another flaw with fascism. Mussolini's decisionmaking was not only poor, it was downright evil, joining the axis. He ran italy into the ground, and could only be removed by a violent coup because his power was absolute.
A great nation is not a nation that rules the world. A great nation is a nation that realizes they don't have to.
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"I believe the people should serve their country for the greater good."

Countries formed for the people, to make them living together better.
So the country should serve the people, not the other way around.
Or would you like to serve mainly the interests of your refrigerator?

As for my political views - I've red too much sci-fi - Galactic Federationalism is the only way I see for the foreseeable future.
All other kinds of goverments will die out sooner or later. Smile
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