Not a member yet? Why not Sign up today
Create an account  

  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
 
Shrapnel and canister shot.

#1
Formerly, it was possible to simulate the historic shrapnel shot and still-alive canister shot with frag shells. With the recent nerf to narrow-cone frags, this has become impractical as shrapnel and canister require a narrow cone. So I propose adding shrapnel warheads and canister as explicit standard shell components.


Shrapnel is a shell type that contains an explosive charge and a bunch of sharp fragments. In game this would be represented as a shell middle component. When it detonates, it scatters the fragments in all directions; they inherit the parent shell's speed in addition to picking up speed from the bursting charge, and their kinetic damage and AP are based on speed. This has one slider that adjusts the bursting charge versus packing material, which affects dispersion versus damage; if the muzzle velocity is low enough and the bursting charge is big enough it is also possible for fragments to go backwards.

Shrapnel shells differ from frag shells in that they are designed to burst in the air before a soft target and shower it with kinetic damage. (This can be done with frag shells, but it is inefficient.) Also, if they are detonated by an inertial fuse, the velocity of the shell should be considered to be whatever it would be after bouncing on the shield for purposes of shrapnel scatter, so shrapnel are as vulnerable to shields as kinetic rounds. A shrapnel head along the lines of the HE, EMP, flak, and frag heads would be nice but would not be necessary.


Canister is a shell type characterized by a metal canister holding a whole lot of little metal balls, making any cannon into a giant shotgun. In game, this would be represented as a shell rear type, but could be a standalone shell all on its own. The canister model, like casing, would not attach to the shell projectile model. Instead, on firing it fires all of the fragments at high speed.

Canister could have two sliders. One affects the number of fragments fired - which can be anywhere from 1 to some high number below the fragment limit. This affects the gauge of the frags as well: When it is 1 the fragment radius equals the gauge and it does the most damage, and as it goes up, the size of the fragment decreases according to the opposite of the formula that determines how many spheres can fit in a cylinder based on the relative diameters and height of the spheres and cylinder. (This should probably be pre-calculated.) Nominal net damage should probably go up with number of fragments but AP should go down more sharply, so that trying to use birdshot-sized fragments does nothing to anything (except possibly player avatars, glass, etc.) due to having no AP at all.
The other slider would simply be the dispersion cone, with a maximum of 45 degrees and a minimum of 1 degree. This is the inaccuracy of the fragments; a narrow cone applies no penalty but a very wide one could optionally boost damage. Optionally.
Canister fragments would get speed from casing and do damage just like any other kind of kinetic damage. Also, it would thereafter be simple to have a traditional black powder cannon of any gauge - it would simply be an APS gun with canister shot loading a single (full-gauge) ball, set to a 1-degree dispersion.

Optionally a shell middle section, 'Canister Extension,' could be included which only works when directly in front of Canister or another Canister Extension, and effectively increases the number of canister shots by 100% of the original at the cost of slightly lowered performance on the part of all shots. If used successfully it would not draw with the model. If used when not placed immediately in line in front of with Canister or connected Canister Extension it would, however.
Reply

#2
Sounds like you just want the changes to fragments undone.
Reply

#3
You can achieve a shotgun type effect if you just give your gun however many loaders as you want pellets (no need for clips, just use input feeders directly into loaders. less explosive anyway) and a whole lot of cooling. Not all that practical, but then, canister shot has always been useless against vehicles anyway.
A great nation is not a nation that rules the world. A great nation is a nation that realizes they don't have to.
Reply

#4
(2017-08-06, 11:14 AM)Liondrome Wrote: Sounds like you just want the changes to fragments undone.

...No. Not sure where you're getting this from, I honestly doubt either of my proposed shell types would be as effective as frag especially against even rudimentarily shielded targets. (Because it's a mass of kinetic stuff either way.) The changes to frag were very good and very necessary.

Shrapnel is for air burst shrapnel shells and canister is for shotgun-style shells, and of those, I'm honestly more invested in the canister rounds. The frag changes were mostly designed to stop narrow-cone frag shells that would impact on and bypass shields. Both shrapnel-simulating and canister-simulating frag shells are already present in the game on ships such as the Harlech and Straussland but they are currently underpowered. (I've also wanted dedicated canister shot since before 2.0.)

(2017-08-07, 12:57 AM)Unhinged mechanic Wrote: You can achieve a shotgun type effect if you just give your gun however many loaders as you want pellets (no need for clips, just use input feeders directly into loaders. less explosive anyway) and a whole lot of cooling. Not all that practical, but then, canister shot has always been useless against vehicles anyway.

You can achieve an effect like a giant shotgun in a great many ways - with insta-detonating, narrow-cone frag being the easiest and the most present in the campaign - but none of them are effective against even the type of vehicles that they would reasonably be effective against at this time. As for canister and shrapnel being ineffective against vehicles, this is true only to a certain extent. My description of canister shot as a thing to be included in the game would also include things like grapeshot, which has historically been useful against vehicles; also, shell types such as the Japanese Type 3 anti-aircraft shell, nicknamed 'Beehive,' are basically incendiary shrapnel rounds. (That shell ended up being not particularly effective as an AA gun but very effective as a coastal bombardment gun.)
More importantly than the historical information, FTD has an extremely wide variety of vehicles present in the game, from sailing ships to spaceships, has more exaggerated weapons than would ever be seen in the real world, and also usually has shorter engagement ranges than in real life. Giant shotguns would certainly have some niche, if only against campaign designs.
Reply



Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread:
1 Guest(s)