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The relative power level of From the Depths.

#41
(2017-04-26, 06:44 AM)Nathaniel411 Wrote: Forgot to mention, small 3x10 satellites 500m in the sky can see an island around the size of Hawaii... If we have bigger satellites 10k meters up in the sky we basically see half the globe.

They can't target weapons at that range, though.
I can sail my airplane in space.
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#42
(2017-04-26, 05:39 AM)Nathaniel411 Wrote: The main problem is that FtDs limitation is balance. If we ignore balance updates and engine limitations:
You can't ignore limitations. That is essentially the physics of Neter. It's like we ignore real life physics. Which then we can go beyond the speed of light just as easily and make lasers that makes no sense.

Cannons that go through several meters of armor in one shot.
Once again... why do people keep citing this? they are butter armor. HA included. Even if HA takes a 500mm sabot to do it... The round is still subsonic. Velocity matters a lot more than mass when it comes to kinetic energy.

Lasers that obliterate everything
Ones that fizzles out within 3km.

Particle Cannons that can cause enough force to render an entire Yamato Class useless
That miss anything beyond 1km

I made a very small cannon capable of 1.2kilometers per second. The shells can go through 16m of HA, which is several times more durable than metal.
Shields. Just, shields.
RoF? Size? Accuracy? Impressive indeed but depends on a number of factors to make a weapon effective. Though IRl sabot go nearly 2km/s. Hikari cited her FTL sabot. But it can't be mounted on a reasonably sized platform.
Can't use evidence like this and imply everything perform the similarly. It can't be both durable and small but faster than light and also maneuverable but at the same time cheap. Since that's what you are implying.

If that's the case then we can mash all the top specs of modern day and make some super weapon. So we can just go say the 800mm railway gun can be mounted on a vulcan autocanon firing at 6000rpm with the speed of a railgun going at mach 9.

Now if it turns out that your gun is an artillery system then things change entirely since even the best artillery can't take up a role of a tank or a ship for example.



LAMS that can instantly wipe out anything at any speed.
Not really, while they take around a second to take out a missile, they only have a very short range and can only intercept so much. You can look up the 'salvo combat model.' Ships and planes will tend to concentrate on a few ships to saturate their defenses. Or otherwise attack via a blind spot. Once a ship is down, the defense also dramatically goes down for the entire fleet.

Warp Drives
Haven't seen it in use much so can't comment

Repair bots and tentacles.
I'll give you that one. But they do consume resources rather rapidly.

If we can make aircraft with 1m armor go at supersonic speeds, if we can use several millimeter armor then, well, since FtD armor can seemingly go through the atmosphere with no issues, we can make extremely quick jets.
But that implies armor actually affect FtD planes. Make a jet with no armor. It will still fly equally as slow. Armor in FtD doesn't do crap to flight performance. Or at least very minimal effect.

The sheer RoF of everything, toppled with range from long shells decimates everything.
You can't have both insanely large shell to achieve 50km range(which is still too short for modern day) AND fast rate of fire. Unless you mean a giant building size gun because that would be totally practical.

If all factions went on a truce we have loads of resource.
If the world united we also will have tons of resources

Grav rams makes everything OP.
What I noticed is that you need a rather insanely large grav ram to push giant block of stuff very quickly making it not very practical to use already. Very limited ammo since there is no way of making a autoloader for such a system. Maybe you can but it will be complex, fragile and huge.
Now if you mean grav rams hitting enemies... Too short range. Even if you give it decent range for tank combat... flipping a tank around is pretty much the same as knocking one out conventionally.
You won't see ships being flung since they would be 100-200km away.


Not to say 33k mass battleship can go 40mph
Iowa is 45k ton and manage 33 knots back in WW2. Just 2 knots short of the "40mph" Seriously... FtD ships only goes fast if you spam heliblades, jets and hydrofoil. Even by that standard it isn't unheard of for real hydrofoils and small planing hulls to do the same. Difference is that they aren't used on most combat vessels.

Lasers that go through several meters of armor every second.
Butter armor, HA included. HA is more durable than metal but still subpar by modern standards.
With modding, 3000mm shells.
Modding don't count. If I rewrite physics, we can go faster than light
If shells go at proper speeds, we can destroy pretty much everything.
If real life have shields we can be immune to everything

Automation. Nothing needs maintenance and crew. Not to say resistance emp blasts. Even if stuff gets fried repair tentacles can handle the job.
Meh FtD isn't that resistant to EMP. Needs quite a large faraday cage for it to actually work out. Automation isn't always a plus. AI is pretty dumb. Assuming they aren't, maintenance is still required. Everything breaks down. I guess game-wise it don't. So sure that's a plus. Repair still cost resources. They are just buffed up repair crew of real life.
So I guess you got a point there.


I'd say modern tech stands no chance

Now in closing.... How does all these factor play out TOGETHER. No maintenance tanks and planes not going to win a war if they can't defeat the enemy.
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#43
Dediblades for a boat is like a jet stream propulsion.
PACs hit beyond 1km, just need to learn how to set them up.
FTD stuff is resistant to EMP, you can literally suspend stuff in space with full protection no problem. EMP isn't that strong as everyone thinks
No need to mod, FTD already goes FTL
Real life cant get as much armor as FTD and get it to fly or float.
Gravram instant rotating a shipe will tear it in half from the shear force.
Proper LAMs instant wipe out missiles.
it just seems you haven't seen properly built stuff in FTD to see how OP it gets.
Lasers has more than 3km range...

Also the point that FTD has shields is because that what it is, RL doesn't have that you can't say RL can have one.

I still stand that RL only has better warheads/nukes.
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#44
(2017-04-26, 09:17 PM)afjklol Wrote:
(2017-04-26, 05:39 AM)Nathaniel411 Wrote: The main problem is that FtDs limitation is balance. If we ignore balance updates and engine limitations:
You can't ignore limitations. That is essentially the physics of Neter. It's like we ignore real life physics. Which then we can go beyond the speed of light just as easily and make lasers that makes no sense.

Cannons that go through several meters of armor in one shot.
Once again... why do people keep citing this? they are butter armor. HA included. Even if HA takes a 500mm sabot to do it... The round is still subsonic. Velocity matters a lot more than mass when it comes to kinetic energy.
500mm Sabot is not subsonic if you do it correctly, 4m Sabot can go 400-500m/s. Even if they shot shells this fast we still have shields, even 1 strength shielding will do the trick

Lasers that obliterate everything
Ones that fizzles out within 3km.
See hikari's comment

Particle Cannons that can cause enough force to render an entire Yamato Class useless
That miss anything beyond 1km
Hikari, again

I made a very small cannon capable of 1.2kilometers per second. The shells can go through 16m of HA, which is several times more durable than metal.
Shields. Just, shields.
RoF? Size? Accuracy? Impressive indeed but depends on a number of factors to make a weapon effective. Though IRl sabot go nearly 2km/s. Hikari cited her FTL sabot. But it can't be mounted on a reasonably sized platform.
Can't use evidence like this and imply everything perform the similarly. It can't be both durable and small but faster than light and also maneuverable but at the same time cheap. Since that's what you are implying.

If that's the case then we can mash all the top specs of modern day and make some super weapon. So we can just go say the 800mm railway gun can be mounted on a vulcan autocanon firing at 6000rpm with the speed of a railgun going at mach 9.

Now if it turns out that your gun is an artillery system then things change entirely since even the best artillery can't take up a role of a tank or a ship for example.

RoF has potential, I only made it for testing so not very impressive RoF, if you made it properly I'd say 40RPM burst fire. Size won't change in the prototype much. Its only 16x5x3. Accuracy is dead straight. Also you forgot shields. Even if we have butter armor, the closest modern day has for shields is expensive and still WIP. Even if they managed to finish it, it would be laughable to FtD.

LAMS that can instantly wipe out anything at any speed.
Not really, while they take around a second to take out a missile, they only have a very short range and can only intercept so much. You can look up the 'salvo combat model.' Ships and planes will tend to concentrate on a few ships to saturate their defenses. Or otherwise attack via a blind spot. Once a ship is down, the defense also dramatically goes down for the entire fleet.
Continuous LAMS can shoot down missiles instantly, no delay. Again, hikari.

Warp Drives
Haven't seen it in use much so can't comment
If you make a good warp drive you can get out of the way of any threat instantly.

Repair bots and tentacles.
I'll give you that one. But they do consume resources rather rapidly.
We have infinite resource zones.

If we can make aircraft with 1m armor go at supersonic speeds, if we can use several millimeter armor then, well, since FtD armor can seemingly go through the atmosphere with no issues, we can make extremely quick jets.
But that implies armor actually affect FtD planes. Make a jet with no armor. It will still fly equally as slow. Armor in FtD doesn't do crap to flight performance. Or at least very minimal effect.
That assumes were on Neter, on Earth things are different.

The sheer RoF of everything, toppled with range from long shells decimates everything.
You can't have both insanely large shell to achieve 50km range(which is still too short for modern day) AND fast rate of fire. Unless you mean a giant building size gun because that would be totally practical.
Actually 500mm 8m shells can be spewed out to 5-6km, a proper naval battle won't take place farther, otherwise it would be impractical. Not to say a single shell has 7 warheads and HEAT. The type that goes through ERA.

If all factions went on a truce we have loads of resource.
If the world united we also will have tons of resources
Again, Infinite resource zones, we have a lot of them in Neter, not to say things are cheaper.

Grav rams makes everything OP.
What I noticed is that you need a rather insanely large grav ram to push giant block of stuff very quickly making it not very practical to use already. Very limited ammo since there is no way of making a autoloader for such a system. Maybe you can but it will be complex, fragile and huge.
Now if you mean grav rams hitting enemies... Too short range. Even if you give it decent range for tank combat... flipping a tank around is pretty much the same as knocking one out conventionally.
You won't see ships being flung since they would be 100-200km away.

The same railgun I said before can be outfitted with a grab ram, which can throw a marauder 1km. Weak, but if you do proper physics that would do a ton of kinetic force.

Not to say 33k mass battleship can go 40mph
Iowa is 45k ton and manage 33 knots back in WW2. Just 2 knots short of the "40mph" Seriously... FtD ships only goes fast if you spam heliblades, jets and hydrofoil. Even by that standard it isn't unheard of for real hydrofoils and small planing hulls to do the same. Difference is that they aren't used on most combat vessels.
Heliblades are the same concept as propellers pretty much

Lasers that go through several meters of armor every second.
Butter armor, HA included. HA is more durable than metal but still subpar by modern standards.

With modding, 3000mm shells.
Modding don't count. If I rewrite physics, we can go faster than light

If shells go at proper speeds, we can destroy pretty much everything.
If real life have shields we can be immune to everything

Automation. Nothing needs maintenance and crew. Not to say resistance emp blasts. Even if stuff gets fried repair tentacles can handle the job.
Meh FtD isn't that resistant to EMP. Needs quite a large faraday cage for it to actually work out. Automation isn't always a plus. AI is pretty dumb. Assuming they aren't, maintenance is still required. Everything breaks down. I guess game-wise it don't. So sure that's a plus. Repair still cost resources. They are just buffed up repair crew of real life.
So I guess you got a point there.

See hikari

I'd say modern tech stands no chance

Now in closing.... How does all these factor play out TOGETHER. No maintenance tanks and planes not going to win a war if they can't defeat the enemy.

Actually, since we see everything thanks to satellite dishes that can see an island the size of Hawaii even when small and only 500m high, we can see them coming.

Space. Modern day has no proper space ship, not to say FtD armor is 100% resistant to burning through the atmosphere, we can have a orbit to surface weapon which is nigh unreachable.

Although they do have better warheads, such a thing called inertial fuses doesn't exist. Nukes would destroy most craft, but it would be dangerous to their own environment. While ships can safely go through the radiation. If they launch nukes over and over it would damage them more than us. Since we can drop forces from space safely, it would cause them a fallout while we can then more easily destroy them.
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#45
(2017-04-27, 02:41 AM)Hikari Wrote: Dediblades for a boat is like a jet stream propulsion.
PACs hit beyond 1km, just need to learn how to set them up.
FTD stuff is resistant to EMP, you can literally suspend stuff in space with full protection no problem. EMP isn't that strong as everyone thinks
No need to mod, FTD already goes FTL
Real life cant get as much armor as FTD and get it to fly or float.
Gravram instant rotating a shipe will tear it in half from the shear force.
Proper LAMs instant wipe out missiles.
it just seems you haven't seen properly built stuff in FTD to see how OP it gets.
Lasers has more than 3km range...

Also the point that FTD has shields is because that what it is, RL doesn't have that you can't say RL can have one.

I still stand that RL only has better warheads/nukes.

Dediblades on displacement hulls still don't give enough speed advantage to overcome the weapon disadvantages.

PAC range is still extremely short by modern standards. All FtD weapon ranges are, because FtD ships can't engage targets beyond 5km.

IRL weapons don't need EMP to win.

Does FtD go FTL in any practical, usable way?

FtD armor isn't comparable to real life armor.

Gravrams wouldn't tear ships in half. They'd punch a small hole at the point of impact. Gravrams may actually be FtD's best penetrator against modern ships. But again, they can't engage beyond 5km.

Proper LAMS struggle to hit much slower missiles than what exists IRL. LAMS would barely have time to engage and fire at the range it operates at.
I can sail my airplane in space.
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#46
Ok, I can't be bothered to go through this whole thing and quote everytime you monkeys have said something about insufficient range, you know who you are.

How, how might I ask is this a problem when one, FtD has far superior speed, and two, warp drives. We could just bring in a massive aircraft carrier style mothership (since the only real limit to size in FTD is lag, something the real world and some cumputers are barely subject to if at all) with multiple sequenced warp jumps for lower charge time, and be within 500m range before the first missile can be launched. And due to the way blueprint spawners and docking stations work, we could bring a whole fleet of meta thrustercraft with it.
The ship itself could be packed full of dediblades and resource storage, and easily reach 50m/s.

All that follows has been described by people such as Hikari far better than I could ever hope to explain it.

TL;;DR warp drive into range, smash face with PAC.
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#47
We can all agree that we cant properly put FTD vs Real life if FTD has physics breaking features for sake of gameplay.

If FTD vehicles would be transfered to real life, nothing would work. Nothing would fly, move let alone point at the enemy to fire oversized cannons.
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#48
FTD wins if RL vehicles are put to FTD physics and universe laws
But it fails the other way around, if FTD vehicles get putted in real life with real physics affecting everyone.
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#49
From what I seen... Warp drive takes like half a minute to a minute to charge and take you a 100 or maybe 200m away. That is rather minuscule boost. I haven't used it so I can be wrong but... Pretty sure they charge until it runs out of energy so I can't imagine you having multiple warp drives since they all take energy from a single pool.

You would need like 100m/s to make it viable closure rate. So far I haven't seen anything larger than a 50m craft go at that speed. 50m craft is not enough to survive missile strikes.
Warp drive makes for a small speed increase. Even 100m/s takes almost an hour to close 200km.
So unless you have such crazy closure rate, range is very important. It made the battleship obsolete. A battleship can out put more damage than a carrier can because of long rearming time of planes. But yet battleships were obsolete simply due to the raw range and even modern jets are no longer requiring high speed or maneuverability. Because BVR missiles.
The carriers and BVR stealth jets can deal damage while not even being able to get hit themselves.
So unless you have godly closure rate then no range is very important.
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#50
(2017-04-27, 03:51 PM)spookywaggon Wrote: Ok, I can't be bothered to go through this whole thing and quote everytime you monkeys have said something about insufficient range, you know who you are.

How, how might I ask is this a problem when one, FtD has far superior speed, and two, warp drives. We could just bring in a massive aircraft carrier style mothership (since the only real limit to size in FTD is lag, something the real world and some cumputers are barely subject to if at all) with multiple sequenced warp jumps for lower charge time, and be within 500m range before the first missile can be launched. And due to the way blueprint spawners and docking stations work, we could bring a whole fleet of meta thrustercraft with it.
The ship itself could be packed full of dediblades and resource storage, and easily reach 50m/s.

All that follows has been described by people such as Hikari far better than I could ever hope to explain it.

TL;;DR warp drive into range, smash face with PAC.

This assumes the FTDs ship even knows the Modern ship is in the area. Given that RL sensors are good for over the horizon and Beyond line of sight while having ranges measured in dozens to hundreds of km the FTDs ship, even if it did have a perfect sequenced blink system capable of crossing several dozen Km simply wouldn't know it was in a fight. A modern ship would see it, and fire at it before the FTDs ship was even aware it was engaged. it's first warning would be the sea skimming missiles slamming into it's side at Mach 5+
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