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Proposal for campaign changes

#11
Sounds good, I like that it's not a real compulsory feature, rather something that can be engaged with if the player feels like it. Also does this mean we're finally getting meaningful strategic AI?! Very keen.

(2019-08-19, 04:58 PM)KuroTerrorSquid Wrote: Sounds good. Trading merit with factions will hopefully spice diplomacy a lot. Maybe you could trade in captured ships for merit, as an alternative for scrapping them or buy some desings from factions that you have a good relations with (good for newbies).

Roaming fleets sounds awsome. Fleet detectability should be based on fleet size and composition so you could have submarine wolfpacks sneaking on your supply convoys, or small DWG raiders sneaking around wrecking havoc on your bases.

I really like this strategic detectability idea. Running the campaign on 0 detection seems very silly at the moment, because the enemy can blockade my completely undetectable submarines, even though when the battle starts they literally cannot engage them. Having a tangible advantage for building hard-to-detect vessels would be great! Especially if we start seeing more resource zones and the AI actually running supply convoys between their resource zones and forward fleets and construction facilities. Would give small, fast, lightly armed raiders (like all the easy DWG) a real purpose. I would recommend that instead of just being fleet size, rather take the sum of all vessels' radar/visual/sonar/etc cross sections, respectively, and then have different types of strategic detection: strategic sonar buoys, radar stations, spotter stations, etc.

Regarding boarding, why not have a "crew quarters" or similar block that enables capturing hostile vessels at the cost of a material upkeep? When two vessels are within a certain range, the crew from the vessel with more crew attempts to capture the opposing ship. The time it takes depends on the disparity in crew numbers. Crew numbers would of course be reduced over the course of the battle by direct damage to the crew quarters blocks. Crew quarters that are underwater (in a non-airpumped section) don't count for crew numbers. You could have a bunch of different-looking blocks that all provide the same function: bunks, dining tables, kitchens, offices, etc. Would give a proper incentive to players to include a bunch of good-looking internals.
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#12
Removing the avatar? No thanks. It's great to be able to walk around on and in your own ships. It brings at bit of depth to the game, so if anything, make it a toggle. Although I do have some issues with the look of rambot and his dangling limbs, but that's a different story.

As for the campaign changes...


  1. Boarding: Boarding is done because the campaign resource income is so horribly low that it pays off shooting at a slab of HA for minutes until it finally gives way and the AI can DIE. As far as I'm concerned, double or triple the resource income, I'm sure that the solution to boarding isn't necessarily to remove the avatar or make boarding impossible, in most cases I believe the problem lies with income. I do, however, like Skullsploders idea:
    Quote:Regarding boarding, why not have a "crew quarters" or similar block that enables capturing hostile vessels at the cost of a material upkeep? When two vessels are within a certain range, the crew from the vessel with more crew attempts to capture the opposing ship. The time it takes depends on the disparity in crew numbers. Crew numbers would of course be reduced over the course of the battle by direct damage to the crew quarters blocks. Crew quarters that are underwater (in a non-airpumped section) don't count for crew numbers. You could have a bunch of different-looking blocks that all provide the same function: bunks, dining tables, kitchens, offices, etc. Would give a proper incentive to players to include a bunch of good-looking internals.

  2. Removing garrisons: YES PLEASE! Get rid of the whole tile system! I would like each fleet to have a sphere of influence though (attributing to your territory), and have more bases, res zones and other worth while landmarks that you need to conquer for territory to become yours. I also like the AI to actually try and conquer points from eachother, instead of patiently waiting until you steamroll through them. And while I'm on it, please make it possible to start battling without going through the boring battle setup, but rather have ships that come into view automatically deploy and fight (even if you're not paying attention). The whole battle setup is immersion killing.
  3. Fleet detection: Yes, good idea
  4. Combat with drawn in allies/enemies. I'm positively skeptical, not sure about being able to draw in enemies, but it'd be nice if you can actually draw in allies into the battle. I would however put some limits on that, so that a fleet of allies cant instaspawn from one side of the map to the other, but have travel time or needs to be adjacent (so you'd beforehand ask an AI ally to provide reinforcements to a location, and wait until they arrive). The taunting seems a good idea though, I like that.
  5. Combat Merits: Positively skeptical, it can indeed provide a good incentive to wage battles a different way, but shouldn't be a driving force for the campaign.
Also, can we get an option to do 1st person campaign only (unless in build mode)? I always loved adventure mode because it forced me to actually BE on the ship, which created immersion for me and made being in/on a vessel fun and scary all the while (instead of randomly finding out you've died).

Anyway, I like the gist of these ideas, thanks!
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#13
I've given my feedback about this internally and I'll post it here for publicity.

I do think the system is interesting as we discussed and I do like it. The only thing that concerns me is that craft teleporting around seems kinda awkward but there's not really a way to stop that in this situation. I do believe that there needs to be restrictions on who you can taunt, aka you need to be at war with them. I'm also inclined to say that victory should be attainable with 1 faction that you are allied to the end with. Setting up the trigger system shouldn't be too difficult to allow this and if need be I'll do it once everything is set up.

In regards to resources, I personally have an idea to add into it; have more resource zones scattered across the map but some open. This means that factions will seek these resource zones to build fortresses. From there the faction can further grow. This means that rushing down a faction is possible but leaving a faction up for an extended time means they just get stronger and stronger. This is where you could use your points to taunt some of their fleets to thin the forces or, if a faction is too strong, try gaining their trust and approaching an ending with them being allied to the end. Of course, if this type of system comes through I'm pretty sure bribing will either be removed or nerfed heavily. This would address the "resource starvation" concerns as well as adds some fluent growth to the campaign and allow various paths to be taken.
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#14
I'm a fan except for the teleporting mercenaries thing. I also think that there should be more things to spend combat merits/distinctions on, perhaps economy buffs? I don't know really. The fleet detectability idea people are floating around sounds really interesting to me and could lead to all sorts of strategy for moving fleets around the map.
Overall I'm very excited for any campaign overhaul as it's sorely needed.
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#15
(2019-08-19, 07:26 PM)Shrugger Wrote: Better diplomacy, sure, yes please.

But other than that, the system as suggested sounds too gamey - normally we have to move forces conventionally, and all of a sudden factions that live on the other end of the planet can just teleport in? And I can earn such magical interventions just by fighting battles on uneven terms - is the narrative behind that that the factions are impressed? Will they also be impressed if I do it for the 100th time?

Intuitively, I don't like it.

Yes the narrative is that you earn a name for yourself as a force to be reckoned with. Because of this rogue enemy generals can be taunted into challenging you. Beating them secures your reputation and now all nations are interested in securing your forces to help in their foreign wars as mercenary units. Your help in these foreign wars provides you with even more influence.

The benefit of this narrative in terms of gameplay is that you'll be able to orchestrate some really nice 3 or 4 or 5 or 6 or 7 or 8 faction fights, visualise and engage in faction on faction battles to turn the tide of their war, and earn something other than "material" with which to pay factions for their allegiances.

Personally I think it sounds very fun and the repetition you talk about... well I personally don't like fighting the same faction in 50 samey battles before they are defeated so would welcome the opportunity to liven that up a bit. The alternative would be that requesting allies and taunting enemies is done at any time on the main map and those allies and taunted enemies just make their way over to you... but that would have a whole host of it's own problems and be a lot more fiddly and a lot less fun. Allies you have summoned could in theory follow you around after the battle if they want to and their commanding AI tells them to.
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#16
(2019-08-19, 07:58 PM)Eagle Wrote: Removing the avatar? No thanks. It's great to be able to walk around on and in your own ships. It brings at bit of depth to the game, so if anything, make it a toggle. Although I do have some issues with the look of rambot and his dangling limbs, but that's a different story.

As for the campaign changes...


  1. Boarding: Boarding is done because the campaign resource income is so horribly low that it pays off shooting at a slab of HA for minutes until it finally gives way and the AI can DIE. As far as I'm concerned, double or triple the resource income, I'm sure that the solution to boarding isn't necessarily to remove the avatar or make boarding impossible, in most cases I believe the problem lies with income. I do, however, like Skullsploders idea:
    Regarding boarding, why not have a "crew quarters" or similar block that enables capturing hostile vessels at the cost of a material upkeep? When two vessels are within a certain range, the crew from the vessel with more crew attempts to capture the opposing ship. The time it takes depends on the disparity in crew numbers. Crew numbers would of course be reduced over the course of the battle by direct damage to the crew quarters blocks. Crew quarters that are underwater (in a non-airpumped section) don't count for crew numbers. You could have a bunch of different-looking blocks that all provide the same function: bunks, dining tables, kitchens, offices, etc. Would give a proper incentive to players to include a bunch of good-looking internals.
  2. Removing garrisons: YES PLEASE! Get rid of the whole tile system! I would like each fleet to have a sphere of influence though (attributing to your territory), and have more bases, res zones and other worth while landmarks that you need to conquer for territory to become yours. I also like the AI to actually try and conquer points from eachother, instead of patiently waiting until you steamroll through them. And while I'm on it, please make it possible to start battling without going through the boring battle setup, but rather have ships that come into view automatically deploy and fight (even if you're not paying attention). The whole battle setup is immersion killing.
  3. Fleet detection: Yes, good idea
  4. Combat with drawn in allies/enemies. I'm positively skeptical, not sure about being able to draw in enemies, but it'd be nice if you can actually draw in allies into the battle. I would however put some limits on that, so that a fleet of allies cant instaspawn from one side of the map to the other, but have travel time or needs to be adjacent (so you'd beforehand ask an AI ally to provide reinforcements to a location, and wait until they arrive). The taunting seems a good idea though, I like that.
  5. Combat Merits: Positively skeptical, it can indeed provide a good incentive to wage battles a different way, but shouldn't be a driving force for the campaign.
Also, can we get an option to do 1st person campaign only (unless in build mode)? I always loved adventure mode because it forced me to actually BE on the ship, which created immersion for me and made being in/on a vessel fun and scary all the while (instead of randomly finding out you've died).

Anyway, I like the gist of these ideas, thanks!

Personally, I kinda like the battle setup in that I can choose which ships I want to spawn instead of having my PC getting fried by large scale battles.
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#17
Ok initially some of the whole applying points to magically warp in some faction really sounds more like this is a card game than a tactical campaign. I would hate it as it blows away any immersion I have of role-playing a story that could be set. If they can just teleport why can't I ??

Suggestion of taking away the gamey concepts but using the points in a diplomatic way. If these points were not given to the player to use like a summoning spell but where calculated by the different factions and then a faction would decide to send a fleet to help the player or against the player. But they actually assign a specific fleet to the player who can set a fleet waypoint for the fleet, maybe second it to an existing fleet, but could not scrap or directly build on any of the ships etc. The factions could send the fleet to the nearest player-owned square and broadcast a message "this fleet is yours to order as you please" . Mercenaries could likewise come in a fleet who will fight for your fleet until they had recovered an amount of resources or whatever limit there is on their participation. Mercenaries could conceivably turn bad if they are not getting enough Booty to survive and start attacking player resources.

Basics I would hate is the magic teleport, make everything in the campaign a fleet that has to move around. The prestige element I think your looking for would be there.

Maybe it is playstyles especially between new and experienced players but could become a problem with teleporting factions is if a new player suddenly gets a load of Scarlet Dawn/Lighning Hoods etc in a fight where they have not equipped against lasers as they have not got that far in building yet. IT would destroy the progression through a campaign where players learn a gradually increasing level of difficulty. Myself, I don't build the most powerful beat everything ship and try to stomp the map. I build a ship to beat an opponent and then incrementally change my fleet ships as a new threat comes along. I roleplay that I can only use the technology that was used against me for the next opponent so it has a gradually increase in power. Otherwise, it becomes a race to space laser.

I do like the increase in diplomacy so a player/faction can use allies, i think it is a great idea and could as you suggest make for interesting battles but use the game mechanics that a player can use. Maybe expand some of the fleet commands or how battles are selected. At the moment the player can decide which fleets to attack and use, what if battle participants were decided purely on the range so any fleet within x range of a battle would be in the lineup automatically based on affiliation. That way player and faction fleets could be combined in one battle and players can't snipe fleets etc.

Please don't do away with the avatar but make the size and interactions fit the blocks and systems. Like sitting on chairs stop it looking out of portholes and windows. I think there is a big community within FTD who like the ability to walk an avatar around a ship they have built, and some even like to setup bridges to control their ship purely in the third person view.

Another great idea would be boarding. I liked having the spawnable hover bots that took over guns etc and maybe expand that again to make them fight each other. Factions could have a different look of a robot, maybe slightly different stats.
You then have a whole new mini game designing your own small robots with different guns, equipment engines, armour etc. Maybe block based on a much smaller/simpler scale that gets translated into a statistical single entity without the complex physics, just a base AC/HP/weapon type/DMG etc
Anyway having these small avatars able to board and take over ships fight and whoever gets and hacks the mainframe gets ownership.
Can see it now hordes of DWG robots swarming the sides taking out guns and trying to get to the mainframe.

Anyway that's my 2p worth of ideas
TLDR
Magically transporting fleets - no
Faction fleets sent to help/attack you - yes
No avatar - NO
Boarding - Yes
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#18
I am stoked for any change that rewards and encourages smaller fleets, and even more excited to see diplomacy becoming meaningful in a way other than resource drain. Above all though improved Campaign AI will do serious work for enjoyment of the campaign.
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#19
Tbf I like the idea of magical warping in the sense that it allows you to fight other factions you're not neighboaring. Would add some variety.
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#20
I dont really like the whole teleporting thing with mercs or allies.

I also prefer if your mercs can be put back into your core fleet after awhile. or (only at once of your HQ bases) or some sort of cool-down so the unit is a merc forever.  I have attachments to my ships and I dont want an arbitrarily reason they cant come back to the main fleet and help ME out again.

Really like that factions will be alive now fight each other.

Also about mercs in localized resource mode. Will they need the materiel storage to bring the merc payment back to me? or will it be a *suitcase of materials* that an extra pocket until i crack it upon back at base?  i can see the need for large storage making merc just be huge massive ships :/ and that's kinds sad  (i like big ships but I like small ones too)

no other thoughts at the momment

Looking forward to your idea's on Looting and boarding. it needs to be more fun then just shooting Heavy armor for 4 mins.......

Also....rambot needs a makeover(or something new)......and crew would be cool but. one can wish.   rambot just seems out of place to me as the only avatar in the whole campaign....
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