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Changing Tides - Archived pre-subforum thread

Bit of a heads-up, though it won't affect any of your designs:
Due to the fact that the new LAMS system makes CRAMs incredibly nonviable (for anything short of a 20-gun broadside), I'm considering preventing the player from building LAMS nodes. Just LAMS nodes, laser weapons are all fine and good.
Of course, faction designs can get away with having said nodes.
Reply

(2016-06-11, 08:54 AM)StahlSentinel Wrote: Bit of a heads-up, though it won't affect any of your designs:
Due to the fact that the new LAMS system makes CRAMs incredibly nonviable (for anything short of a 20-gun broadside), I'm considering preventing the player from building LAMS nodes. Just LAMS nodes, laser weapons are all fine and good.
Of course, faction designs can get away with having said nodes.

And how you gona do that ?

The locking of component doesnt work at all and you can still build ships with the forbidden component

And people if people want to build a vehicle with it from the scratch, they will simply switch to Neter and then jump back
Reply

(2016-06-11, 04:21 PM)mrvecz Wrote:
(2016-06-11, 08:54 AM)StahlSentinel Wrote: Bit of a heads-up, though it won't affect any of your designs:
Due to the fact that the new LAMS system makes CRAMs incredibly nonviable (for anything short of a 20-gun broadside), I'm considering preventing the player from building LAMS nodes. Just LAMS nodes, laser weapons are all fine and good.
Of course, faction designs can get away with having said nodes.

And how you gona do that ?

The locking of component doesnt work at all and you can still build ships with the forbidden component

And people if people want to build a vehicle with it from the scratch, they will simply switch to Neter and then jump back

Dammit, I was worried that would be the case.

I'll just have to hope.

And have a coffin on standby for all the designs that use CRAMs in the event that anyone decides to use LAMS.
Reply

This is a bane of all sandbox campaigns with theme/era set, there is no way atm to prevent player to use high tech gadgets to flip the game balance around

Ciarans age of sail campaign ships will get their asses chopped to pieces by lasers, cannons and other stuff they are not prepared for

Its one of the reasons i dont want Zrytix to be sandbox entirely, since there is no way to prevent player using things to absolutely roll the enemy
Reply

Sorry for not being on the forums for a while (even though it may show that I'm on them, it's most likely cause I have this in a background tab on my computer or tablet). Where are you guys finding these updates (am I just being blind?). So LAM's now affect CRAM's......I don't know whether that's a good thing or a bad thing honestly. CRAM's are nice for mass damage so in that respect it's nice to have another defense against them and the fact that they're going slow enough that a guy with a rifle could probably hit them. HOWEVER, I don't know if I'm the only one with this problem but only a portion of CRAM shells actually connect with their target. APS most of the time does hit them but CRAM's seem to just go sailing around the target. Furthermore it gives me more incentive not to mess with them, and potentially new players that same incentive since APS (as far as I know, again I have no idea where your seeing these updates) doesn't get affected by LAM's.

Off from my little rant, I've gotten little work done when it comes to the designs I've made and are making thus far. However I have made a new Reefback Wrecker Barrage Balloon thingy. It's the first I've ever made so it's not in the slightest nice looking, but furthermore it's also a little buggy:

Say hello to the Matchstick CRAM:

(No photo here since I only have one photo of it and it requires some backstory)

It's taken me an astoundingly long time to design this, the Hunter was done in less time and sadly I feel as if this has kinda failed. It hovers at about 150 and will attempt to get over it's target and bombard them with CRAM shells that actually do a surprising amount of damage (tested it against a stationary Plunder and it destroyed the Bridge in a single shot, the downside is that the cannon takes a while to reload since I upped the packing time). However it's slow and when missiles are brought into play it'll disintegrate. Something that I found completely funny was the fact that they are darn good repairers. In the Designer I sent a swarm of 5 against some of my AA designs and all of them were taken out BUT two began repairing each other. One fully repaired one and my AA took it out, then that one repaired the other one, and my AA took that one out and this happened for a while until finally the timer just ran out on one (the long way) then the other fell because of that. Testing this again I sent a swarm of two, did the same thing BUT when I sent the swarm of five again only two survived and repaired each other. Can someone explain this to me please lol? Pic that required that backstory:

[Image: 0O2bkRe.jpg]

I've attached the BP even though I'm not 100% happy with it, I'm thinking of making a new one and instead of going for the ah....'matchstick' look I'll be going with the look that just screams: "Some idiot thought it was a good idea to attach balloons (dedi-blades) to a ship......" it just practically spells Reefback Wreckers!

PS: Ignore the timer in the corner, I record youtube videos and this was an attempt at me balancing the audio (I screwed my microphone up bad....) and the best way I've learned to do that is to record some FTD building, which I don't post since it's just to mess with the audio lol.


Attached Files
.blueprint   Matchstick Mk I CRAM.blueprint (Size: 92.31 KB / Downloads: 26)
"If you’re leaving scorch-marks, you need a bigger gun"

"If you're not willing to shell your own position, you're not willing to win."
Reply

People find updates here, and APS is affected by LAMS too. What is a bug, is that projectiles that aren't explosive aren't getting killed by LAMS at all.
Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
~~Terry Pratchett
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(2016-06-14, 05:09 AM)Gaurdian23 Wrote: Sorry for not being on the forums for a while (even though it may show that I'm on them, it's most likely cause I have this in a background tab on my computer or tablet). Where are you guys finding these updates (am I just being blind?). So LAM's now affect CRAM's.....

This is the latest devtest. Not in stable yet (thankfully) and it definitely will be adjusted before reaching stable.

(2016-06-14, 05:09 AM)Gaurdian23 Wrote: I don't know whether that's a good thing or a bad thing honestly. CRAM's are nice for mass damage so in that respect it's nice to have another defense against them and the fact that they're going slow enough that a guy with a rifle could probably hit them. HOWEVER, I don't know if I'm the only one with this problem but only a portion of CRAM shells actually connect with their target. APS most of the time does hit them but CRAM's seem to just go sailing around the target. Furthermore it gives me more incentive not to mess with them, and potentially new players that same incentive since APS (as far as I know, again I have no idea where your seeing these updates) doesn't get affected by LAM's.

Believe me, it's a bad thing. I did some testing with a crappy LAMS system I threw together (results are in the 1.9557 thread if you feel the need to look at several lines of everything that isn't a spamcannon getting made useless), and LAMS is way too effective at shutting down CRAMs entirely. Worse yet, it also shreds 500mm APS, which is the next best thing for slow-firing battleship guns. Needless to say, I'm miffed because unless it gets changed the only reliable way to deal damage with cannons is spamcannons, which I loathe.

(2016-06-14, 05:09 AM)Gaurdian23 Wrote: However I have made a new Reefback Wrecker Barrage Balloon thingy. It's the first I've ever made so it's not in the slightest nice looking, but furthermore it's also a little buggy:

Say hello to the Matchstick CRAM:

(No photo here since I only have one photo of it and it requires some backstory)

It's taken me an astoundingly long time to design this, the Hunter was done in less time and sadly I feel as if this has kinda failed. It hovers at about 150 and will attempt to get over it's target and bombard them with CRAM shells that actually do a surprising amount of damage (tested it against a stationary Plunder and it destroyed the Bridge in a single shot, the downside is that the cannon takes a while to reload since I upped the packing time). However it's slow and when missiles are brought into play it'll disintegrate. Something that I found completely funny was the fact that they are darn good repairers. In the Designer I sent a swarm of 5 against some of my AA designs and all of them were taken out BUT two began repairing each other. One fully repaired one and my AA took it out, then that one repaired the other one, and my AA took that one out and this happened for a while until finally the timer just ran out on one (the long way) then the other fell because of that. Testing this again I sent a swarm of two, did the same thing BUT when I sent the swarm of five again only two survived and repaired each other. Can someone explain this to me please lol?

No explanation can be found. Repair tentacles have been a little wonky in my experience (sometimes refusing to repair ever again if a repair bot finishes a turret attachment point they were repairing).

(2016-06-14, 05:09 AM)Gaurdian23 Wrote: I've attached the BP even though I'm not 100% happy with it, I'm thinking of making a new one and instead of going for the ah....'matchstick' look I'll be going with the look that just screams: "Some idiot thought it was a good idea to attach balloons (dedi-blades) to a ship......" it just practically spells Reefback Wreckers!

I've had a look at it, and identified some things that could improve it:
  • Balloon looks pretty nice. Could pretty much stay the same.
  • Beaming. This vehicle seems to suffer from blockcount inflation.
  • Replacing the frag & hardener pellets with HE pellets will be a good idea. The Wreckers don't have very sophisticated weapons and rely on blunt trauma.
  • Add a few more gauge increasers and remove the packing time limitation. Again, the Wreckers aren't very sophisticated and generally suboptimal.
  • Add an "explode below" fuse and laser targeter to the CRAM so it can function as an anti-sub depth charge gun. Trust me, it'll be great.
  • Could probably use some sort of secondary weapon system. Maybe something like the Coffin Nail or Casket Bolt has would do well, since they're fairly similar in shape. As it stands, it has no firepower outside its bombing range and is massively vulnerable because of this.
  • Replacing the second layer of wood armour with metal (inside or outside, whichever looks better) would probably be a good idea.
  • AI - it's within 3 blocks of the ammo store. Anything within 3 blocks of an ammo barrel will get damaged when it blows, so move it upward a little. Also the tracker target ID card doesn't do anything (to my knowledge). The propulsion balancing card isn't making too much of a difference either. Still, it's well insulated from EMP, so that's good.

Also here's a pic of it fighting a TG Trilobite sub with the gauge and fuse modifications. Yes, it's flying. Apparently the Twin Guard make flying submarines.
   
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Sidenote: I've had a look at the Vanguard thrusterfoil and noticed the following:
  • No control room. This one isn't intended to be a drone - although the OWC use these heavily, they're more often in a support role to other units.
  • Particle cannon turret is a little out-of-place in the OWC and also blocks the laser designator.
  • Repair tentacles can probably go, but that isn't a final decision - keep 'em just in case, it helps for repairing the drone support.
Apart from that, it's pretty close to what's needed!

Other notes: God Lamb the Onyx Watch Behemoth is a beautiful ship. I almost feel bad about testing the Vanguard on it.
Reply

(2016-06-14, 05:38 PM)StahlSentinel Wrote: This is the latest devtest. Not in stable yet (thankfully) and it definitely will be adjusted before reaching stable.

Ok, good.

(2016-06-14, 05:38 PM)StahlSentinel Wrote: Believe me, it's a bad thing. I did some testing with a crappy LAMS system I threw together (results are in the 1.9557 thread if you feel the need to look at several lines of everything that isn't a spamcannon getting made useless), and LAMS is way too effective at shutting down CRAMs entirely. Worse yet, it also shreds 500mm APS, which is the next best thing for slow-firing battleship guns. Needless to say, I'm miffed because unless it gets changed the only reliable way to deal damage with cannons is spamcannons, which I loathe.

Well that's not good. If it was just a crappy one that means that my Frigates are completely immune to CRAM and APS damage then (if they were to just release it without fixing it)... I'm slightly ok with this lol (it in a ways sounds fun, but it would completely break the game).

(2016-06-14, 05:38 PM)StahlSentinel Wrote: No explanation can be found. Repair tentacles have been a little wonky in my experience (sometimes refusing to repair ever again if a repair bot finishes a turret attachment point they were repairing).

Yea I'm starting to realize that they're great in fleets but also annoying >.< (the worst one I've had is that it repaired a ship that was being rammed by one of my own, and it repaired a part that was inside the other........in the ammo room.......upside I learned that my old ships are surprisingly tough (they have 1 thick armor on the outside and somehow did better versus the White Flayers than my 3 thick armor policy now.......) downside? It was in the campaign.....and the ship that blew up cost 350,000 metal....... and split in two))

(2016-06-14, 05:38 PM)StahlSentinel Wrote: I've had a look at it, and identified some things that could improve it:
  • Balloon looks pretty nice. Could pretty much stay the same.
  • Beaming. This vehicle seems to suffer from blockcount inflation.
  • Replacing the frag & hardener pellets with HE pellets will be a good idea. The Wreckers don't have very sophisticated weapons and rely on blunt trauma.
  • Add a few more gauge increasers and remove the packing time limitation. Again, the Wreckers aren't very sophisticated and generally suboptimal.
  • Add an "explode below" fuse and laser targeter to the CRAM so it can function as an anti-sub depth charge gun. Trust me, it'll be great.
  • Could probably use some sort of secondary weapon system. Maybe something like the Coffin Nail or Casket Bolt has would do well, since they're fairly similar in shape. As it stands, it has no firepower outside its bombing range and is massively vulnerable because of this.
  • Replacing the second layer of wood armour with metal (inside or outside, whichever looks better) would probably be a good idea.
  • AI - it's within 3 blocks of the ammo store. Anything within 3 blocks of an ammo barrel will get damaged when it blows, so move it upward a little. Also the tracker target ID card doesn't do anything (to my knowledge). The propulsion balancing card isn't making too much of a difference either. Still, it's well insulated from EMP, so that's good.

Also here's a pic of it fighting a TG Trilobite sub with the gauge and fuse modifications. Yes, it's flying. Apparently the Twin Guard make flying submarines.
  • Thank you, that's pretty much the one thing about it I like the most lol
  • Yea, I forgot to beamify it. Sorry about that!
  • K, I can do that. Besides EXPLOSIONS!!!!
  • K, I was just worried since I didn't want to make a massive CRAM that devastated the enemy (but saying this it's gonna be HE so)
  • I thought I did add a Laser targeter to it, oh well I'll do that when I get back on
  • Yea, I didn't think of doing it like the Coffin nail or Casket bolt though..... This is gonna be fun!
  • I'll do it inside since I still want it to look like it was put together from scraps.
  • Ah, I always wondered what the magical death number was! I'll raise the AI two then, I didn't know that......huh. Yea Propulsion balancing was there for it's......previous...iteration. It looked amazing (had a bridge that was extended outward at the top and a few other things) but once the accelerator was hit it would just do circles(....entertaining but it's suppose to fight the enemy, not make them laugh to death (still a good strategy though)) so I put that on in hopes that it would stop that...and it did but turning would make it nose dive into the ocean. So I removed the comfy bridge and all the other good aesthetics and went with the matchstick design.

Hmm, not sure how I feel about that.....I might need to make a flying submarine now, they will never expect it! (I would absolutely love to see the face of an attacking force that is facing a submarine that not only can remain at the bottom of the ocean, but also fly!)
"If you’re leaving scorch-marks, you need a bigger gun"

"If you're not willing to shell your own position, you're not willing to win."
Reply

(2016-06-14, 05:53 PM)StahlSentinel Wrote: Sidenote: I've had a look at the Vanguard thrusterfoil and noticed the following:
  • No control room. This one isn't intended to be a drone - although the OWC use these heavily, they're more often in a support role to other units.
  • Particle cannon turret is a little out-of-place in the OWC and also blocks the laser designator.
  • Repair tentacles can probably go, but that isn't a final decision - keep 'em just in case, it helps for repairing the drone support.
Apart from that, it's pretty close to what's needed!

Other notes: God Lamb the Onyx Watch Behemoth is a beautiful ship. I almost feel bad about testing the Vanguard on it.

Yea I didn't put one on at the time on accident (got distracted with explosions!), but I've been thinking about an underslung one just to mix things up or go with the one on the Hunter.
K, I can remove it in favor of a rapid fire APS. Just a warning though the Hunter has it too.
Alright, sorry that I keep putting those on. It's kinda my thing to have all support ships have some repair tentacles on it to keep my main ships alive. I'll keep them on for now.

K, good to hear!

Lol, it truly is. That's almost the main reason why I don't test things against it. The other being that most of my designs are slower than these (saying that though, these are becoming a new favorite of mine) so they get blown to bits before they know what's happening.

Also, here's the BP for the Hunter! I believe I'm done with it but I'm not sure (other than the Particle cannon, which I'll remove in the next iteration). I don't believe I actually did say this but the Hunters main cannon is a tri-barreled 150mm capable of firing almost constantly. This is now becoming a favorite weapon of mine (I'm already in the works of retrofitting the Matercula with this cannon).


Attached Files
.blueprint   Hunter Class Thrusterfoil.blueprint (Size: 179.89 KB / Downloads: 20)
"If you’re leaving scorch-marks, you need a bigger gun"

"If you're not willing to shell your own position, you're not willing to win."
Reply



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