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Fuel, ammo, damage and misc changes - draba - 2019-12-16

There were some big changes under the hood so keep an eye out for/report any problems, stick to stable if you don't want to deal with that.

Outlines
- Campaign/adventure resource gains increased to 4x. Avoiding damage is now virtually impossible, and running weapons is expensive. Quick fix, will be adjusted with the campaign rework.
- Ammo storage density massively increased, passive regen removed and ammo costs cut across the board. Things that relied on passive ammo regen now have enough ammo for at least ~35-40 minutes.
- Fuel refinery and engine efficiency decreased, tank capacity doubled. The biggest power hogs (lasers, planar shields) got their power requirements cut. Lower engine volumes are needed and running propulsion is now a noticeable cost.
- Damage adjustments to make HE weaker, frag/kinetic stronger. HESH can't be countered as hard and applique/wood now aren't mandatory against it.
- Missile countermeasures changed to make multiple smaller decoys better.

Note that fuel engine change is still in progress.
Final power/fuel values will be ~40-60 for most compact engines, with large very efficient ones reaching ~100.

Resource containers
  • Ammo container capacity up from 100 to 1000 ammo per cubic meter
  • Fuel tank capacity up from 1000 to 4000 fuel per cubic meter
  • Empty variants added for ammo and fuel containers, cost is 10 materials/cubic meter
  • Material cost of a full ammo crate: 10 for the block, 100 for the 1000 ammo it contains per cubic meter
  • Material cost of a full fuel tank: 10 for the block, 400 for the 4000 fuel it contains per cubic meter
  • Repairing both empty and full container variants costs 10 materials/cubic meter, doesn't give any resources back
  • Destroying containers proportionally reduces current resource levels
  • Selling containers reduces ammo/fuel capacity. If capacity goes below the current resource level extra ammo/fuel are sold for standard cost
  • Ammo box explosion size is a function of ammo contained in that box: 1 base HE damage/ammo, final damage and radius are scaled by the same function as APS/missiles/PAC
Standard costs: 1 material buys 10 fuel or 10 ammo, 1 fuel buys 50 energy or 50 power for 1 second.

Resource processing
  • Campaign/adventure resource zones have 4x the regen and 10x the capacity
  • Ammo processors now give 7.5 ammo for 0.5 materials every 2 seconds
  • Ammo container passive regeneration removed
  • Fuel refineries now turn 1 material into 10.5-16 fuel
  • Buy ammo/Buy fuel buttons added to the map view. Fills the containers on a given craft for the standard resource costs mentioned above. Materials are taken from allies within 1000m (from closest ones first)
  • Resource collectors now work at 2 materials/sec, instead of 1
Ammo processors give 15 ammo for 1 material, but also need 20 power. Temporary until the ammo factories are finished.

Fuel refineries
  • Cracker cost up to 500, processes 1 material/second. 500 gas capacity, 10/sec gas buildup
  • Coker cost up to 2000, coker:cracker ratio determines efficiency. 250 gas capacity, 10/sec gas buildup
  • Desalter cost up to 1000, reduces dangerous gas production to 50%
  • Flare stack cost up to 500, burns 100 dangerous gas/second
  • Gas buildup now doesn't cause damage, but on gas levels reaching max capacity the still explodes (still also explodes when the block is destroyed)
  • Still explosion base damage: GAS_PER_SEC * 20 + GAS_AMOUNT. Final damage and radius are scaled by the standard HE function used in APS/missiles/...
In general a simplification and making smaller scales better.

Ammo costs
  • Missile ammo cost down to 40%
  • APS ammo cost down to 50%
  • Simple weapon ammo costs down to ~20-40% the previous values
  • Simple laser ammo cost down to 10% the previous value
For a given firepower simple weapons are cheap to run, APS more expensive, missiles very expensive.

Engines, power costs
  • Fuel engine efficiency down to half the previous value. Will change further, see the note below the outlines.
  • Planar shield material cost down from 200 to 100, power cost down to 50%
  • RTG energy/volume down from 25 to 15
  • RTG repair cost is now full price, instead of 5%

Batteries
  • Battery storage up from 2000 to 10000 per cubic meter
  • Batteries only have full variants, at a cost of 500 energy/material
  • Electric engine efficiency is fixed at 100%
  • Electric engine max power output is 0.4% of current battery power

Blueprint loading
  • Blueprints store their empty cost and contained resource cost separately
  • Empty and full ammo/fuel containers are functionally the same, full ones just increase the ammo/fuel level saved in the blueprint
  • When a blueprint is loaded in creative mode it's loaded with resources for free
  • When a blueprint is built in the campaign/in adventure it is loaded with resources once it reaches full health
  • Campaign/adventure with local resources tries to take materials from forces within 1000m, starting with the nearest one
  • Custom battles and centralized resource campaign/adventure use centralized resources for filling blueprints
  • Loading order for new vehicles: fuel, ammo, battery energy, APS, lasers, missiles, simple weapons
  • APS cannons load their saved shells on spawn
  • Lasers are initially loaded with energy they would get from 30 sec of pumping
  • Laser cavities now save their charge when pulled in/out of play
For newly built things all loaded resources are bought at the standard costs mentioned above.

Damage adjustments
  • HE damage down by 25%
  • HE damage scaling function's exponent from 0.8 to 0.85, this means smaller explosions are slightly weaker and large ones slightly stronger
  • Frag damage up by 20%
  • Kinetic low cal scaling buff now tops out at 100% bonus damage at <125mm, instead of ~41%
  • Kinetic AP down by ~8% (roughly the same as 2 versions ago, heavy head keeps the 10% relative boost)
  • HP damage up by ~10%, to offset AP reduction
  • HESH damage down to ~45%
  • HESH fragment AP is now the weighted average of all the armor it goes through, with the last block counting at triple width(only for AP calculations). Final AP is 2x that average.
HESH changes mean it's usually much stronger against things with applique/wood, much weaker when not countered.
HEAT: high raw damage, fixed 6 AP.
HESH: low raw damage, usually very high AP.

APS
  • Casings now count as 1/4 a component for calculating reload times, instead of 1/2
  • APS reload times up by 15% (to offset the casing buff)
  • Using multiple barrels with APS also increases RPM bonus from coolers (by 5/10/15/20/25% for 2/3/4/5/6 barrels)
  • APS clip cost up by ~33%
  • New checkbox: Force desired gauge (default off). When the box is ticked the cannon won't reduce caliber and clear clips on losing gauge increases. It holds fire until enough increases are available

Lasers
  • Laser pump efficiency doubled (1 energy for 1 power each second, instead of 1 energy for 2 power)
  • Laser cavity capacities and material costs doubled
Laser running cost is now noticeable, volumes are reduced to compensate.

Missiles
  • Missile damage up to 4/3 the previous value
Very high ammo cost:firepower ratio now matters much more, damage up to compensate.

Missile countermeasures
  • IR, radar and sonar target simulator strength now scale with volume, instead of efficiency (1.25:10:80 ratio, instead of 1:10:100 for S:M:L)
  • Each missile rolls 10 separate decoy strength reductions, each decoy missile gets a number between 1-10
  • Missiles use the decoy strength reduction corresponding to the number on the given decoy missile
  • This means multiple(up to ~10-15) smaller decoys can be practical
  • Kinetic/explosive damage against missiles down from 10x to 5x

Miscellaneous
  • Airplane manoeuvre's idle thrust defaults to 100%, instead of 10%
  • Rokkit launcher simple weapon recoil down from 1200 to 500



RE: Fuel, ammo, damage and misc changes soon on devtest - Pyrotech51 - 2019-12-16

Hmmm... That set of changes to HESH seem to make it much less binary than it used to be.

The weighted AP calculation means that it isn't hard countered by a wooden spall liner anymore, so it should be a more stable damage output vs well built stuff and less of a shred everything type of shell vs things that lack that defence.

Also:
New checkbox: Force desired gauge (default off). When the box is ticked the cannon won't reduce caliber and clear clips on losing gauge increases. It holds fire until enough increases are available

This is beautiful to see! After so long watching your guns lose 1-2 pieces and empty their clips this is greatly appreciated... On the other hand it also means your guns stay Explosive after taking said damage...


RE: Fuel, ammo, damage and misc changes soon on devtest - Maty83Cz - 2019-12-16

How is HESH AP calculated with these changes? You present no evidence to how it is, which is why I'd like to see it. Thus I cannot form an opinion on the change.


RE: Fuel, ammo, damage and misc changes soon on devtest - UnderTrack - 2019-12-16

It used to be :
the AP of HESH spalling frags was the AC of the last block of an armor plate it would penetrate; for example if it was hitting on a Metal/HA plate, it would have 40 AP which is the AC of HA
Withe the change :
the AP of HESH spalling frags takes the average AC of blocks of an armor plate it will penetrate with the last block counting tripple; for example if it hits on a Metal/HA plate, it would have : (15+40+40+40)/4 = 33.75 AP (Metal once and HA counting tripple)

And what it means is that for example, when back then you would have peoples using Wood then airgap then appliqué so that they pop out after the wood, have an AP of 1 (because wood has 1 AC) and do virtualy no damage to the appliqué because that has 65 AC; well now if you have HA or metal before it's gonna have overall a lot more AP even tho the 1 is counting tripple especialy with HA because HA+Wood would give hesh spalling frags a fair 10.75 AP

*also, no point in complaining about it not being explicited, it was, you're either too lazy to look for it or ask other peoples or you're blind or you're not even reading*


RE: Fuel, ammo, damage and misc changes soon on devtest - Pyrotech51 - 2019-12-16

(2019-12-16, 08:56 PM)UnderTrack Wrote: It used to be :
the AP of HESH spalling frags was the AC of the last block of an armor plate it would penetrate; for example if it was hitting on a Metal/HA plate, it would have 40 AP which is the AC of HA
Withe the change :
the AP of HESH spalling frags takes the average AC of blocks of an armor plate it will penetrate with the last block counting tripple; for example if it hits on a Metal/HA plate, it would have : (15+40+40+40)/4 = 33.75 AP (Metal once and HA counting tripple)

And what it means is that for example, when back then you would have peoples using Wood then airgap then appliqué so that they pop out after the wood, have an AP of 1 (because wood has 1 AC) and do virtualy no damage to the appliqué because that has 65 AC; well now if you have HA or metal before it's gonna have overall a lot more AP even tho the 1 is counting tripple especialy with HA because HA+Wood would give hesh spalling frags a fair 10.75 AP

*also, no point in complaining about it not being explicited, it was, you're either too lazy to look for it or ask other peoples or you're blind or you're not even reading*
You forgot the HESH AP being double the AC (which used to mean it would deal full damage to the same class of block as it exited.


RE: Fuel, ammo, damage and misc changes soon on devtest - UnderTrack - 2019-12-16

Fair enough


RE: Fuel, ammo, damage and misc changes soon on devtest - Normal69 - 2019-12-16

Interesting in many ways!
At least you stayed in the devtest. Thumbs up. Wink


RE: Fuel, ammo, damage and misc changes soon on devtest - DelsGaming - 2019-12-16

looks interesting and makes sense.

Happy that small decoys will have possibility of functioning.
At last empty fuel blocks ...
Not sure on reduced kinetic/he against missiles, seemed that small CIWS recently having issues stopping the faster missiles but will have to see.

Overall it pulls it all intoa  reasonable balance and like seeing that there is no longer a cookie APS gun to down them all.


RE: Fuel, ammo, damage and misc changes soon on devtest - Maty83Cz - 2019-12-17

(2019-12-16, 08:56 PM)UnderTrack Wrote: *also, no point in complaining about it not being explicited, it was, you're either too lazy to look for it or ask other peoples or you're blind or you're not even reading*

Thanks for explaining your view. I was asking specifically about the average as armor stacking uses a similar method of counting the final value. That generated a bit of confusion for me. Still, is it just a weighted average, or does it take into account the formula for armour stacking? 

If the way you explained it is correct, then the question is how the game handles slopes for its final AP vounting as that may potentially have wide-reaching effects for certain types of builds

Next time, don't assume incompetence on my part. I may have not asked in the clearest of manners though. So forgive me for that one, please.


RE: Fuel, ammo, damage and misc changes soon on devtest - Pyrotech51 - 2019-12-17

(2019-12-17, 08:56 AM)Maty83Cz Wrote:
(2019-12-16, 08:56 PM)UnderTrack Wrote: *also, no point in complaining about it not being explicited, it was, you're either too lazy to look for it or ask other peoples or you're blind or you're not even reading*

Thanks for explaining your view. I was asking specifically about the average as armor stacking uses a similar method of counting the final value. That generated a bit of confusion for me. Still, is it just a weighted average, or does it take into account the formula for armour stacking? 

If the way you explained it is correct, then the question is how the game handles slopes for its final AP vounting as that may potentially have wide-reaching effects for certain types of builds

Next time, don't assume incompetence on my part. I may have not asked in the clearest of manners though. So forgive me for that one, please.

I would note that I think more of his comment was directed at the fact that all of the answers to this are clearly laid out in Draba's post... Specifically in the two HESH bullet points.

It's now using a weighted average of the AC with 2 ghost layers of armour that match the innermost layer added to the calculation. This does mean that glass armour layers might be interesting though, as it has even lower AC than wood, and that alloy based composites will be better than metal ones Vs spalling.