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I'd like to suggest two things about ammo boxes. Currently, ammo is stored usually in armoured housings, with multiple boxes stored in the same location. Detonating a single ammo box will result in a 3m radius explosion, which I find reasonable.

However, I find it odd that a large number of ammo boxes together will not lead to a significantly heavier explosion, while I think that it should. Each connecting ammo box should increase the explosion size by a fixed amount, say with a factor 1.2. A ammo store with a 3x3x3 would blow up more violently than a 2x2x2, and less violently than a 5x5x5. This has a few implications. It will be more interesting to spread out the ammo stores across the ship, which will make it harder to just place ammo in locations where battledamage isn't much of a problem. It will also lead to designers having to calculate the risk of concentrating the ammo versus spreading it.

It will also create bigger booms, and who doesn't love bigger booms?

Second suggestion: The introduction of a "High grade" ammo box, which contains more ammo than the standard box (I'd say in the range of 500 per box), without resource generation and with a 7 radius detonation. This should aid the more realistic builders, and will allow for a larger ammo pool to help adress high peak usage. Like with the standard ammo, the explosion radius increases with the amount of connected ammo boxes, so there is a significant trade-off.

Let me know what you think Smile
(2018-03-31, 10:54 AM)Eagle Wrote: [ -> ]I'd like to suggest two things about ammo boxes. Currently, ammo is stored usually in armoured housings, with multiple boxes stored in the same location. Detonating a single ammo box will result in a 3m radius explosion, which I find reasonable.

However, I find it odd that a large number of ammo boxes together will not lead to a significantly heavier explosion, while I think that it should. Each connecting ammo box should increase the explosion size by a fixed amount, say with a factor 1.2. A ammo store with a 3x3x3 would blow up more violently than a 2x2x2, and less violently than a 5x5x5. This has a few implications. It will be more interesting to spread out the ammo stores across the ship, which will make it harder to just place ammo in locations where battledamage isn't much of a problem. It will also lead to designers having to calculate the risk of concentrating the ammo versus spreading it.

It will also create bigger booms, and who doesn't love bigger booms?
I do like them!
And I do like that suggestion, I've added it to my todo list.


(2018-03-31, 10:54 AM)Eagle Wrote: [ -> ]Second suggestion: The introduction of a "High grade" ammo box, which contains more ammo than the standard box (I'd say in the range of 500 per box), without resource generation and with a 7 radius detonation. This should aid the more realistic builders, and will allow for a larger ammo pool to help adress high peak usage. Like with the standard ammo, the explosion radius increases with the amount of connected ammo boxes, so there is a significant trade-off.

Let me know what you think Smile
I'm less enthusiastic about that one, while it may be good for realistic builder, it would change the balance, especially for small builds.
I mean, if we increase the ammo cost of missiles (as in the missiles mod), with such an ammo box micro fighters will be able to fire a lot more missiles, and they don't care about the size of the explosion, as any hit will destroy them anyway.

I think that's better to have that in a mod for realistic builders.
It would be nice to have more options for ammo boxes, like high-density and armored, but it would need some balancing.
(2018-03-31, 11:04 AM)Gladyon Wrote: [ -> ]
(2018-03-31, 10:54 AM)Eagle Wrote: [ -> ]I'd like to suggest two things about ammo boxes. Currently, ammo is stored usually in armoured housings, with multiple boxes stored in the same location. Detonating a single ammo box will result in a 3m radius explosion, which I find reasonable.
It will also create bigger booms, and who doesn't love bigger booms?
I do like them!
And I do like that suggestion, I've added it to my todo list.

And please big bear, can you delete is from your todo list? Big Grin
This while giving a nice visual effect for Eagle, makes Normal69 units 8 times more vulnerable.

Bigger ammo cubes already create bigger explosion (size makes it easy target).
Bigger ammo holder cube with no regen? I never will use it. Anyways ammo makers are for fools. Big Grin

But seriously these ideas are killing vetisale building capatibilities of the game.
People who are building mainstream solutions giving out ideas which ruin other types.
And of course I am not only wrong, but stupid, if I do not build like this:
-boats, because there is the sea, and going under and over it is a sin
-of course use steam engines or injector fuel engines for power, and ammo makers, because there is only one glorified strategical option: the zerg rush! spend resource, and grab more
-also do not, I repeat do not try to pilot or control your vehicles, just watch aimlessly as they collide, keep them on combat AI and do not touch
-never try to navigate difficult terrain, instead demand flatland for your tank, and deep sea for your ship and nag for it
-if you encounter any heretics (not using these rules), tell them at once that they are wrong, and stupid (I've got my share from this)
-the most important rule: if you cannot solve a problem instantly ask for a rebalance - sabot get countered by shields? shield nerf! cannot hit anything with cram? get crams out of the game!

I am calm, the above one was simulated from earlier angry experiences.
Hope you see what I mean.
(2018-04-03, 01:22 PM)Normal69 Wrote: [ -> ]
(2018-03-31, 11:04 AM)Gladyon Wrote: [ -> ]
(2018-03-31, 10:54 AM)Eagle Wrote: [ -> ]I'd like to suggest two things about ammo boxes. Currently, ammo is stored usually in armoured housings, with multiple boxes stored in the same location. Detonating a single ammo box will result in a 3m radius explosion, which I find reasonable.
It will also create bigger booms, and who doesn't love bigger booms?
I do like them!
And I do like that suggestion, I've added it to my todo list.

And please big bear, can you delete is from your todo list? Big Grin
This while giving a nice visual effect for Eagle, makes Normal69 units 8 times more vulnerable.

Bigger ammo cubes already create bigger explosion (size makes it easy target).
Bigger ammo holder cube with no regen? I never will use it. Anyways ammo makers are for fools. Big Grin

But seriously these ideas are killing vetisale building capatibilities of the game.
People who are building mainstream solutions giving out ideas which ruin other types.
And of course I am not only wrong, but stupid, if I do not build like this:
-boats, because there is the sea, and going under and over it is a sin
-of course use steam engines or injector fuel engines for power, and ammo makers, because there is only one glorified strategical option: the zerg rush! spend resource, and grab more
-also do not, I repeat do not try to pilot or control your vehicles, just watch aimlessly as they collide, keep them on combat AI and do not touch
-never try to navigate difficult terrain, instead demand flatland for your tank, and deep sea for your ship and nag for it
-if you encounter any heretics (not using these rules), tell them at once that they are wrong, and stupid (I've got my share from this)
-the most important rule: if you cannot solve a problem instantly ask for a rebalance - sabot get countered by shields? shield nerf! cannot hit anything with cram? get crams out of the game!

I am calm, the above one was simulated from earlier angry experiences.
Hope you see what I mean.

I have a lot of things in my todo list, I will not do all of them.
I use it to remember things.

I like that idea, but the goal isn't to have 80m explosions. As I see it, it would be more like going from a 3m max to about 6-8m or something like that.
I'll think more about it when I'll feel about giving it a try (if I ever do...).
I have zero clue on what your rant is about Normal, but it will also make my own craft more vulnerable and I don't really see a problem with that. I'll likely have to redesign a lot of the ammo stores or spread them to compensate for this. It will not in any way reduce the amount of freedom people have in building, it will just provide an incentive to think smartly about your ammo placement.
(2018-04-03, 02:12 PM)Eagle Wrote: [ -> ]I have zero clue on what your rant is about Normal, but it will also make my own craft more vulnerable and I don't really see a problem with that. I'll likely have to redesign a lot of the ammo stores or spread them to compensate for this. It will not in any way reduce the amount of freedom people have in building, it will just provide an incentive to think smartly about your ammo placement.

I mostly agree, it will make it more complex to create an efficient vehicle, which is usually what FtD players are looking for.

But that said, I think we should avoid gigantic explosions inside the ship, so there will probably be some limit, or at least diminishing power.
Packing too many ammo boxes will be very dangerous, that's probably enough.

Anyway, I won't do that for now so I'll think about it later (and sometimes time provide good ideas or a better understanding of things).
I can only say that my current tournament would only benefit from that change. I went for a rule mandating the participants to place all their ammo boxes in one place (citadel) which results in a clean somewhat spectacular kills. I would really love to see one big ripping explosion tearing the ship instead of that "space launch" effect.
(2018-04-03, 02:36 PM)harnas1977 Wrote: [ -> ]I can only say that my current tournament would only benefit from that change. I went for a rule mandating the participants to place all their ammo boxes in one place (citadel) which results in a clean somewhat spectacular kills. I would really love to see one big ripping explosion tearing the ship instead of that "space launch" effect.

You can ask them to replace one ammo box with a nuclear bomb, it should do the trick.
(2018-04-03, 02:12 PM)Eagle Wrote: [ -> ]I have zero clue on what your rant is about Normal, but it will also make my own craft more vulnerable and I don't really see a problem with that. I'll likely have to redesign a lot of the ammo stores or spread them to compensate for this. It will not in any way reduce the amount of freedom people have in building, it will just provide an incentive to think smartly about your ammo placement.

Please do not try to understand it then unless you want to. Smile

Your idea rests on two causes:
-how nice would be bigger explosions
-a building style you prefer (I think ammo makers and sporadic little boxes)

You can literally see my building style, so I won't rant about that.
Yours' just an idea which will ruin my units, that's why I'm ranting, an emotional response to that.
You do know emotions, yes?

(2018-04-03, 02:18 PM)Gladyon Wrote: [ -> ]I mostly agree, it will make it more complex to create an efficient vehicle, which is usually what FtD players are looking for.

But that said, I think we should avoid gigantic explosions inside the ship, so there will probably be some limit, or at least diminishing power.
Packing too many ammo boxes will be very dangerous, that's probably enough.

Anyway, I won't do that for now so I'll think about it later (and sometimes time provide good ideas or a better understanding of things).

Good to hear, thanx! Big Grin

---

Currently I have the ammo-boxes inside at the back, 2 separate 3 layered boxes, surge protected.
Nice arrangement, middle-easy complicated, even draws fire behind my unit.

With the proposed modification depending on the treshold of touching ammo-boxes, I will need then to slice the boxes into smaller containers (like you would transport plutonium not to achieve critical mass)
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